Mantus Anchor or Rocna ?

[downunder]

Originally Posted by malbert73

Great post there. That's the issue with even raising the question of angle. What matters more is real world setting. Videos by panope and pictures by noelex and others are far more valuable than an article debating this and raising questions that are not borne out in real world conditions. If mantus really sets at a shallower angle than rocna in real world, then how in the world did it hold much better in soft mud on chesapeake than rocna (and manson if I remember right)? To me it means that the setting angle isn't worth debating.

And if it sounds like I have a stake in this, I guess I do. Bought a mantus years ago for my prior boat, based on great boat show interaction with their folks. Loved it. Couldn't believe setting ability. Then neeves and PS started raising theoretical shank issue (despite that many anchors like danforth and fortress have slender shanks for generations) so when I bought my current boat, I decided to get a rocna. Decidedly different experience than mantus- several drags on wind shifts, several times it didn't set. Finally sold it and got a mantus. Amazingly better on all counts. So I was initially swayed away from a superior anchor due to someone's writing who seemed intent on questioning mantus. If someone reads latest PS, they may come to erroneous conclusion despite a mere passing reference to how much better mantus fared in their real world testing earlier.

Tell the ROCNA guys that the poor standard shank was not an issue.

[Spade Anchor]

Originally Posted by malbert73

Anyone chuckle through the latest PS issue? That author is so biased against mantus for unknown reason that this is last straw for me when my subscription runs out. if anyone knows what a Rocna supreme is please let me know. And how does the author conclude the Rocna has a better setting angle than mantus based on this picture with the shanks clearly not aligned?

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Practical Sailor mentioned us several times in the article but did not bother to add us to the list of vendor's to contact. Unbiased?

[RobertLeask]

I've been using a Mantus 65 every day in the Bahamas and Florida since I launched 3 months ago. So far it has always set immediately and never dragged. I often deliberately put it in places where the chart says "poor holding" just to find out what it's limits are. Up to this point it's performance is 100%.

[evm1024]

Originally Posted by downunder

Tell the ROCNA guys that the poor standard shank was not an issue.

History is an interesting thing....

In the beginning:

Rocna - insisted that shanks need to be made from bis-plate 800 MPa steel. Anybody that did not was a fool or worse.

Enter China

Rocna - Shifted manufacturing to China and somewhere along the line started making shanks out of 400 MPa steel.

Venice Anchor

Rocna - **** hits the fan in many forums as the "Venice Anchor" comes to light. A Rocna with the shank twisted like crazy. Rocna denys that there are any problems with its anchors. The production manager makes comments gets sued and all kinds of very interesting stuff goes on. Delfin (if I recall correctly) got a rocna shank and had it tested for strength. It was not Bis Plate as required by the designer.

West Marine

Rocna - West Marine sent out a “product specification notice” to clients about 13 Rocna anchor sizes. “In West Marine’s view, it is a certainly a ‘bummer’ that Rocna produced anchors with steel of a lesser grade than that called for on their website and that had been previously published,” said the letter, referring its customers back to Rocna for technical questions. West Marine also offered a refund to owners who were concerned about Rocna anchors covered under the notice. (see https://plus.ibinews.com/article/x0j...l=QhwSqot59Q9I)

2012

Mantus anchors founded, Manufacturing in China with mild steel shanks.

Shank upgrades

Rocna - Rocna changes shank steel to what is thought to be 690 MPa steel and describes them to be fit for use without further details.

Mantus - It is brought to Mantus's attention that their shank is of mild steel and that it is likely to bend. Mantus upgrades the steel to a stronger steel (690 Mpa) proactivly. Mantus continues to sell existing stock while the new shanks enter the pipeline and offers a free shank upgrade to anyone who bought one with the mild steel shank.


So on one hand we have a company who insisted that shanks have strong steel and then changed it to a lower grade. Things are interesting because the company says that the production manager did this on his own and the production manager says that he was told to do this. It takes an ownership change and a product notice from West Marine get things set right.

On the other hand we have a company who was informed of the problems with the steel they were using in their shanks and went ahead and upgraded the steel without a fuss and offered to replace the older shanks free of charge.

Fun to live through for some.


N.B. I had one of those weak steel Rocnas and sent it back. Then I ended up with a Mantus. I liked them so much that I decided to sell them.

Also, Huge number of details left out. It makes for interesting reading.

Also (also) I think that any of the current crop of New Generation anchors including Rocna would be a fine choice.

[malbert73]

Yeah, mantus customer service is crazy good. They sent me an extra shank for cost of shipping (if that) for my first anchor which was early gen mild steel.

[groundtackle]

Practical Sailor mentioned us several times in the article but did not bother to add us to the list of vendor's to contact. Unbiased?
We feel your pain spade, we did get a mention this time. Typically EXCEL doesn't make that NG list or invited to an anchor test, maybe because its newerer.
This guy writes well and I read his stuff. We have a couple links to him on our refrence library. He has real world experience and not afraid to look into something, learn and then publish. Yes, there are spelling and possible technical errors. I'd like to get him on here and ask him a few more questions.
ce

[evm1024]

Originally Posted by groundtackle

Practical Sailor mentioned us several times in the article but did not bother to add us to the list of vendor's to contact. Unbiased?
We feel your pain spade, we did get a mention this time. Typically EXCEL doesn't make that NG list or invited to an anchor test, maybe because its newerer.
This guy writes well and I read his stuff. We have a couple links to him on our refrence library. He has real world experience and not afraid to look into something, learn and then publish. Yes, there are spelling and possible technical errors. I'd like to get him on here and ask him a few more questions.
ce

He is jonjo on this board as I recall. But has not been very active here since 2014. At least under that name.

[downunder]

Originally Posted by evm1024

He is jonjo on this board as I recall. But has not been very active here since 2014. At least under that name.

Has been inactive and unable to contribute because he was banned.

He often disagreed with a moderator in particular.

I felt his knowledge and contribution on anchoring systems has been lost to CF. Certainly the anchor threads have been diluted with his passing from CF. Malbert 73 unfortunately you cannot raise these issues with jonjo unless he was allowed back. Would that happen? Who knows.

[Factor]

Yes both jonjo an independent commentator who was a fan of the excel and congo who made them suffered the ultimate flick, HMMM

[KetoNomad]

Not sure if it's been mentioned before because I'm not about to sift through a few dozen pages of arguing off-topic when I just want to know if Mantus is better than Rocna...

Distant Shores TV or whatever their YouTube channel is called has a video where they talk about their Rocna anchor and I found it interesting. In the video they try to say positive things about it and I'm assuming this is due to sponsorship, I get that, no judgements here (love your channel, if you're reading this). Reading between the lines, however, what they're really saying is that the anchor sucks. They show the anchor trying to set in slightly grassy mud IIRC; not super tricky stuff IMO for such a hyped anchor. Anyway, the anchor drags around quite a bit and eventually sets but for all the hype and expense of these things you can count me out! If I'm going to drop a g-note on an anchor it'd better be really good! Most telling is that even though the narrator (forgot his name) is trying to be positive the best he can say is that it is "pretty good" which, in these days of hyperbole, means it's, well, let's just say it's probably not worth the money.

I've seen lots of videos on Youtube about the Mantus as well. They all seemed more positive especially the one where they showed that the Mantus has most of its weight on the tip of the flukes to allow for better setting. All tests showed the anchor setting in about one anchor length and holding tight. There was also another great video about a guy riding out a hurricane anchored only to a single Mantus (100lb) and not budging an inch so, for me, I'm going to go with a Mantus. Probably a 50lb for my tiny boat because a) I need the exercise and b) I don't have a sense of humour about dragging anchor.

This is just my 2 cents, no offense intended. If you think I'm wrong I'd love to hear about it. I'd rather find out now then later after spending mad cheddar on a piece of junk.

[DumnMad]

Silly to take notice of a U-tube video. Dishonesty abounds.
Infinite combinations of soil types and rode angles can be manipulated. Your U-tube example may have been legit but on the other hand the rode angle might have been wrong for this anchor and/or for the seabed.

If you read the thread you will see that Rocna along with other modern anchors are very good. Problems with all anchors are that very often people using them just don't know what they are doing.

[evm1024]

I break anchors down into a few generations.

The old generation (CQR, Luke, etc)

The last generation (Delta, Bruce etc)

The new generation (Mantus, Manson, Rocna etc)

And a special generation (Fortress etc)

If for any given seabed and scope we were to normalize the performance of a CQR to be 10 then the performance of a new generation anchor might be 100.

In one specific seabed/scope a Mantus might be 100, the Manson might be 98 and the Rocna might be 103 for some specific test (straight line pull, resetting, or what have you) in another 102, 100, 98. You get he idea.

The idea I'm presenting is that all the new generations anchors are close to each other when taken as a whole. I being biased and having owned a Rocna, Manson and Mantus have selected to use a Mantus. I like them so much that I decided to sell them (thus the bias warning).

The threads by nolex and panope have a hugh information content if you take the time to view them.

PS Oh, if you are in the pacific northwest by PDX drop me a PM and I can loan you a Mantus to see how it fits on your bow roller and anchor a time or few with it to get a feel for how it works with your boat.

[KetoNomad]

True, i take most of YouTube with a healthy dose of skepticism but since I'll have to try one kind first im betting on a Mantus. If nothing else, it'll disassemble and stow nicely on long passages.

[Jim Cate]

There are literally thousands of happy owners of Rocna, Manson, Spade, Mantus and other modern anchors. All of them are way better than older designs. There may be small differences in performance between the models, and the differences may change in varied conditions. To argue about the superiority of one over another is a waste of time and bandwidth. Buy one that meets your budget, that fits your bow setup and is available in your area, and stop obsessing about minor matters of superiority.

Anchor threads are a prime demonstration of the fallibility of anecdotal evidence!

Jim

[hpeer]

We have not often sailed where there were many other boaters until this past year, and especially this season in the Bahamas.

Here is my perceived wisdom from theses threads and my experience and observations.

Arguing about the "best" anchor is stupid. There are a number of factors that drive your selection and you should strive to get an "adequate" anchor for you boat, your anchor platform, your sailing conditions, your bottom. You need a balanced system.

The new generation roll bar anchors are all roughly equal, as well stated above.

For those with a bow sprit where the shank comes through an appature your best bet is likely the biggest Spade you can fit and handle. Either that or redo the bow sprit. As I was forced to replace my sprit do I also completly redid the anchoring platform to support a BIG roll bar.

Size matters. Danforths are great anchors. As a kid I spent a huge amount of time in the water with my 14' skiff swinging on a Danforth. But those little danforths just don't have the weight to penetrate the hard sand or grass, we had to set them by hand. This holds for all types of anchors. You need WEIGHT, some minimum amount, to dig in, to penetrate. The more weight the better.

I see far too many boats with SS chain and or SS anchors. People are spending series money for BLING! Take that same cash outlay and you could buy an adequate anchor and rode. The prize should have gone to the bloke with 100' of SS 3/8" chain and a 15# SS Delta on a 35' sailboat. Then I heard him talk about how he hard "serious ground tackle that has taken a beating!" I've got a 15# Bruce on my dink.

The deck attachments need to meet or exceed the ground tackle strength or you've just moved the failure point to a worse spot.

I heard so much radio chatter, so much consternation about assuring you were anchoring in sand, not grass, or that they had drug there in 20 knots of wind, and not being able to set the anchor and other marlarkey. This is a complete failure to recognize your ground tackle is a VITAL SAFETY SYSTEM. What are you gonna do when your engine knoks out in a inlet and the winds and currents are contrary? We picked up a plastic bag that blocked our engine intake going out Cape Fear, out going tide, no wind. We anchored in 30' with swell until we got a tow back in. That was not a bad situation. I damn well want a good system to save my bacon. If you have to sweat normal daily anchoring events your system is too damn small, period.

I'm not knocking good anchoring technique one bit. But I repeatedly see folks sweat anchoring and fail to get a good set right next to me, where I had no problem. And frankly I think I'm pretty bad at anchoring. I've failed, I've drug, I've embarrassed myself. But I've then upgraded and improved my system, and my technique, so that it does not fail and I have a sense I have a large margin of error. A safety margin. That's what's missing in so many discussions, the safety margin.

So, to sum up my 2¢, look at your system from anchor to attachment point, get the heaviest new gen anchor you can handle, match the rode to your max anticipated wind load. Check/upgrade your attachment points to hold that load. Spend what you need to have a decent system appropriate to your cruising ground. Forget bling. Relax.

For US, because we have been from 52°N to 23°N just this year, because our cruising ground is so varied, it means we need a very robust system. What we have is not appropriate to a guy who day sails the Chesapeake. Needs vary. But if you regularly need to poke around to find a place you can get a set, then you should reconsider your system