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Old 01-11-2013, 02:16   #46
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Re: Manson Supreme Rock slot

I'm not an advocate of the Supreme nor SARCA, I think there are better models that can be used as a primary anchor. I cannot comment on the Boss, I've never used one and I've only seen one at a boat show - so I reserve judgement.

I have used both a SARCA and a Supreme they perform as well as many other, what seem to be called, New Gen anchors. The SARCA, without its locking bolt, has been an enduring model and must be coming up for its 20th Birthday (and there are not many designs that make 10 years let alone 20!) - so the rock slots are not the issue suggested.

But despite the fact I think there are better anchors I see large numbers of yachts with either SARCAs and Supremes on the bow roller - suggesting they are used as primary anchors and I see some of these anchors on yachts that cruise. I do not know if the owners of the Supremes ever use the rock slot but the SARCAs I see do not use a locking bolt and the fact they use the anchor (and have not consigned it to a locker, or a shed) suggest they do not find the slot an issue. As an aside, when I was in the UK about 3 years ago I saw more SARCAs than I did Supremes and not a locking bolt in sight (though the numbers were small).

My conclusion is that though it is possible to pontificate about the slot -reality seems to suggest some people live with it quite comfortably. If the slot was an issue we simply would not see the anchors on bow rollers and the stories about them would be legend - the internet does not lie or hide - anything.

But I still think there are better anchors than the SARCA and Supreme.

I am quite happy that people seem to use the rock slot without issue (it suggests it cannot be relegated to the 'unsafe' category) - and if I was in the Med I would carry a rock slotted anchor (for reasons previously mentioned).

Jonathan
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Old 01-11-2013, 02:58   #47
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Re: Manson Supreme Rock slot

Yes well I cannot say I didnít know that this was going to turn into another you are wrong Rex threads, I have cheoah scratching his head as he cannot work it out, my post in the way and why I have entered it as so, Gee cheoah obviously you must scratch your head often.


Noelex give it up. You have an opinion, I believe it is more than that, when I entered my last post it was a genuine effort to present some answers to those that were genuinely seeking it, rather than ask me questions you form an opinion, actually nobody asks a question they all wait for you to lead, from there itís more opinions no fact. no questions, simply speculation, but hey that is fine, (we do not need a lock stop bolt,)

If you fit one it will be fine, the stainless bolt over the last 14 years has had no effect at all creating corrosion, and I have never seen one come loose this is fact, I can give you hard fact to all of your continued speculation and opinions if you would like that, but if I try you will remove the post immediately as has happened before as the fact of all I say are on our web site.

One more strike and I am gone because of presenting fact, anyway it really doesnít matter because you will not change your stripes when it comes to Anchor Right, if I say it is black you will say it is white, by the way Cotemar, Rocna dumped their original RRR shank and have now change to a replica of the Manson Supreme shank.

No I am not going to challenge your opinion Noelex, its not worth the effort, I was hoping for others to lead to have some meaning full questions but it seems you rule.

Any way alls fine and I am just about finished moving into our new larger factory so have more important things to do right now, I would hope there are some on this forum that would challenge your opinions but I suppose that would be wishful thinking.

Regards Rex.

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Old 01-11-2013, 03:50   #48
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Re: Manson Supreme Rock slot

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Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
The Boss only has a slot. They supply a special bolt to block it off, but they shape the end of the shank so the bolt is not just relying on friction to prevent it sliding forward.(it still does not look wonderfully secure to me) The Sarca just has a simple uniform thickness slot. I cannot imagine you could get it tight enough to stop the bolt sliding when subject to some force and even with a nyloc nut the galvanising will thin around the SS bolt (reacting to the SS) and tend to loosen it

I agree about the Supreme. Hopefully they optimised the balance for the fixed hole.
I purchased a Manson Boss earlier this year, and chose to use the option of having the shackle in the fixed position.
Having secured the locking bolt as tight as possible, I was a little disappointed to see the bolt drop off as the shank came over the roller after my first night at anchor.
Then spent the next 5 weeks anchoring having to use the slot (I was in Ireland and not able to find a correct sized replacement)
I was concerned about the anchor tripping out, especially in places like Youghal where the tide reverses twice a day with rates up to 4 knots, but the boat never dragged so something was working.
When I got home, I emailed Manson, and they were good enough to send a replacement bolt, and in reply, stated that the nut and bolt were of an improved design.
Unfortunately, when the replacement reached my house, the packaging was damaged and the nut was missing, so I never got to see what the improvement was.
I was not totally satisfied with the washers supplied, looked awfully thin, and when the nut was hardened up, the washers ended up being deformed in the slot.
I fitted thicker washers, and a nyloc nut, and so far it has remained secure
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Old 01-11-2013, 04:11   #49
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Re: Manson Supreme Rock slot

Thanks for the feedback Nigel. It is good to hear some real world experience.
I had hoped the Boss system would be better.
It does at least have a ridge to help retain the bolt rather than the straight, uniform slot of the Sarca.

They seem to have two different designs of ridges on the Boss to help retain the bolt and stop it sliding down the shank (see photos). A notch, and a deeper slot at the end. Which design has yours got? I think the one on the left is the newer version and the one on the right is the older version, but maybe they use one system on smaller anchors and the other on larger models.

It would seem possible with both designs to fit a bolt diameter large enough that it was too thick to move past the thinner portion of the shank and therefore would be secure. Thoughts?

(Please note this is slightly off topic the Manson Supreme is different with a separate hole that can be used with no risk of the attachment point slipping.)
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Old 01-11-2013, 04:36   #50
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Sailed from East coast of Australia to Thailand anchoring all the way in all sorts of anchorages through Indonesia, Malayasia and Thailand. Have used slot in Manson supreme continuously over the last 2 years and have not dragged once. Big fan.
Cheers Dale.
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Old 01-11-2013, 04:48   #51
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Re: Manson Supreme Rock slot

Daletournier Wrote:

Sailed from East coast of Australia to Thailand anchoring all the way in all sorts of anchorages through Indonesia, Malayasia and Thailand. Have used slot in Manson supreme continuously over the last 2 years and have not dragged once. Big fan.
Cheers Dale.


Rex Wrote:

Well Noelex another dose of fact not opinion, I rest my case (what bolt)

Regards Rex.
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Old 01-11-2013, 05:01   #52
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Re: Manson Supreme Rock slot

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Originally Posted by congo View Post
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Yes well I cannot say I didnít know that this was going to turn into another you are wrong Rex threads,

I'm just going to say that I don't understand what on the thread has you on the ropes so much. It reminds me a little of how Craig Smith used to post, which is the reason I probably never buy a Ronca. I believe you know your stuff. But the way you present it is wasted as I stop reading.

On topic, I get the feeling that slots are more about the owner either willing to believe or not. Nigel posted he used his Boss with the slot with no problems, but he still doesn't believe in it. Dale just posted he has used his MS with the slot for years with no problem.

I haven't used my MS slot because when I got it and asked everyone suggested it was almost dangerous and no one responded they were using it. So that puts me in the non believer crowd.

Does it really just come down to the "we don't like change" thing as thinking goes. Because that is what it really sounds like once the noise is taken out.
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Old 01-11-2013, 05:10   #53
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Re: Manson Supreme Rock slot

Quote:
Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
.

They seem to have two different designs of ridges on the Boss to help retain the bolt and stop it sliding down the shank (see photos). A notch, and a deeper slot at the end. Which design has yours got? I think the one on the left is the newer version and the one on the right is the older version, but maybe they use one system on smaller anchors and the other on larger models.

Mine is the newer version, the picture on the left.
The bolt will not fit in the slot, in my case, the nut somehow worked loose enough to wind itself completely off the bolt, and that was while anchored for one night.
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Old 01-11-2013, 05:35   #54
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Re: Manson Supreme Rock slot

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Originally Posted by congo View Post
Yes well I cannot say I didnít know that this was going to turn into another you are wrong Rex threads, I have cheoah scratching his head as he cannot work it out, my post in the way and why I have entered it as so, Gee cheoah obviously you must scratch your head often.


Noelex give it up. You have an opinion, I believe it is more than that, when I entered my last post it was a genuine effort to present some answers to those that were genuinely seeking it, rather than ask me questions you form an opinion, actually nobody asks a question they all wait for you to lead, from there itís more opinions no fact. no questions, simply speculation, but hey that is fine, (we do not need a lock stop bolt,)

If you fit one it will be fine, the stainless bolt over the last 14 years has had no effect at all creating corrosion, and I have never seen one come loose this is fact, I can give you hard fact to all of your continued speculation and opinions if you would like that, but if I try you will remove the post immediately as has happened before as the fact of all I say are on our web site.

One more strike and I am gone because of presenting fact, anyway it really doesnít matter because you will not change your stripes when it comes to Anchor Right, if I say it is black you will say it is white, by the way Cotemar, Rocna dumped their original RRR shank and have now change to a replica of the Manson Supreme shank.

No I am not going to challenge your opinion Noelex, its not worth the effort, I was hoping for others to lead to have some meaning full questions but it seems you rule.

Any way alls fine and I am just about finished moving into our new larger factory so have more important things to do right now, I would hope there are some on this forum that would challenge your opinions but I suppose that would be wishful thinking.

Regards Rex.
I guess once I get one I will have to find a calm day and couple of different bottom types and try to get it to fail with the slot simulating wind and tide shifts by motoring around to see if anything can be proved or disproved.

I appreciate everyone's responses and most seem logical, however aside from just a couple of people actually using it I think I'm going to have to find a way to go about this a little more scientifically.

I apologize if I started any feuds and like I said I do appreciate what everyone has had to say and their opinions/experiences. It has given me a lot to think about!
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Old 01-11-2013, 05:37   #55
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Re: Manson Supreme Rock slot

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Originally Posted by nigel1 View Post
Mine is the newer version, the picture on the left.
The bolt will not fit in the slot, in my case, the nut somehow worked loose enough to wind itself completely off the bolt, and that was while anchored for one night.
Thanks, so if you wanted to block off the slot with the Boss a largish bolt and nyloc nut would work. Even if the bolt got loose it would still block off the slot (because it would be too thick to slide down the slot) providing the nut did not fall off completely. Have I got that right ?
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Old 01-11-2013, 06:26   #56
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Re: Manson Supreme Rock slot

Sailorboy1 Wrote:

I'm just going to say that I don't understand what on the thread has you on the ropes so much. It reminds me a little of how Craig Smith used to post, which is the reason I probably never buy a Ronca. I believe you know your stuff. But the way you present it is wasted as I stop reading.

On topic, I get the feeling that slots are more about the owner either willing to believe or not. Nigel posted he used his Boss with the slot with no problems, but he still doesn't believe in it. Dale just posted he has used his MS with the slot for years with no problem.

I haven't used my MS slot because when I got it and asked everyone suggested it was almost dangerous and no one responded they were using it. So that puts me in the non believer crowd.

Does it really just come down to the "we don't like change" thing as thinking goes. Because that is what it really sounds like once the noise is taken out.
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Well this is where opinion is excepted, I certainly do try to come over pleasantly and I see no problem as to how I present my facts, it maybe to you as the owner either willing to believe or not, I am the designer, big difference when someone has no idea but powerful enough in opinion and influence to miscue fact’s that are proven over a twenty year period.



I could supply hard evidence, visual facts, if I do my post will disappear, difficult for me to see unsubstantiated opinion when I cannot post the facts, proof not theory.

Not so serious ? it’s more to do with passion.


For the odd ones that have said the anchor has let go when attached to the slide rail make shore your d shackle is not too long, otherwise it can fall down on the underside of the shank, when the pressure on the anchor is applied the chain can be jammed on the underside side of the shank and you will drag.



I could also see this happening when removing the bolt from the boss, something to watch; Yes if you fit a robust stainless bolt with thick washers and nylock nut , you will be able to apply incredible lock up pressure on the rail, this is what we do if requested, it will simply not move with no implications, we have been doing this for many years, no failure.


No need for appolodgy Otherrocks just hope we have helped.

Regards Rex.
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Old 01-11-2013, 06:31   #57
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Re: Manson Supreme Rock slot

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I guess once I get one I will have to find a calm day and couple of different bottom types and try to get it to fail with the slot simulating wind and tide shifts by motoring around to see if anything can be proved or disproved.
That would be great. Some of the anchor tests have tried this, but is difficult to simulate what happens in real life.

The only test I know that looked at an anchor with a rock slot (it was a Super Sarca) found that it tripped out at 120 rather than 150 degrees as all the other anchors (there were 5 or 6 other designs without a rock slot) did. So the anchor would trip out over a 60 degree wider arc of the swinging circle.

They did the subsequent tests with a bolt (as we are discussing) in the Sarca's rock slot to equalise the anchors performance.

I do have some reservations how these tests were done and I don't think they accurately reflect what happens to anchor in a typical real life situation, but they are the only test data that I know of.
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Old 01-11-2013, 06:32   #58
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Re: Manson Supreme Rock slot

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Thanks, so if you wanted to block off the slot with the Boss a largish bolt and nyloc nut would work. Even if the bolt got loose it would still block off the slot (because it would be too thick to slide down the slot) providing the nut did not fall off completely. Have I got that right ?
That is correct, the bolt will not slide into the narrow part of the slot.
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Old 01-11-2013, 08:17   #59
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Re: Manson Supreme Rock slot

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That is correct, the bolt will not slide into the narrow part of the slot.
NIgel, if loosening should still be a problem, I'd think that drilling through the nut and bolt after tightening and putting a split pin or safety wire through it would be a positive cure.

But then, you likely already know that!

Cheers,

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Old 01-11-2013, 09:12   #60
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Re: Manson Supreme Rock slot

Thanks Jim
I think with the nyloc it is now pretty secure
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