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Old 30-12-2012, 20:33   #106
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Re: Manson Supreme in Weed

JonJo,

Rocna and Manson are originally from New Zealand, and then Rocna was purchased in Canada.

I only see a few anchors in the poll that are made in the USA and they are not the popular ones.

The Anchor Poll is only a piece of software that allows 11 choices, thatís it.

As you can see Manson alone carries 12 different anchor designs.

The Anchor Poll you are dreaming of will never exist as it would mean nothing and would be horribly confusing
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Old 30-12-2012, 21:14   #107
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Re: Manson Supreme in Weed

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Originally Posted by Cotemar View Post
JonJo,

Rocna and Manson are originally from New Zealand, and then Rocna was purchased in Canada.

I only see a few anchors in the poll that are made in the USA and they are not the popular ones.

The Anchor Poll is only a piece of software that allows 11 choices, thatís it.

As you can see Manson alone carries 12 different anchor designs.

The Anchor Poll you are dreaming of will never exist as it would mean nothing and would be horribly confusing
Cotemar - The poll has nothing to do with where anchors are made (or not that I am aware), its how easily they are available, how much they cost and how good they are that is important (and often what was on the yacht when it was bought). It is you who has suggested that the Poll confirms the popularity and excellence of concave designs. Given that Americans do not have good convex anchors available to them I would not expect any other result - but I would hope that no-one could be so dogmatic as to deny the idea that contrary designs might work and to consider that any opportunity to widen choice for N Americans might not be a bad thing, especially (if like the Kobra) the product is as cheap as chips! I might understand your dogmatism if you had some fudiciary interest in (a) concave design - but knowing this is very unlikely and judging you to be of considerable intelligence and integrity I do wonder why you cannot open your heart and mind to alternate ideas.

You might have a point, maybe I dream too much. But to suggest a more balanced poll might be horribly complicated seems to insult the intelligence of the forum members - and they largely seem to have their heads screwed on correctly given the quality of their posts.

Warm regards.
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Old 30-12-2012, 21:22   #108
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Re: Manson Supreme in Weed

JonJo,
Your dreams may come true
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...l-92960-5.html
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Old 30-12-2012, 21:28   #109
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Re: Manson Supreme in Weed

I'm really quite impressed!

Now - about all those who posted 'other' in the original poll - cannot repost?

It just goes to prove, soemthing?
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Old 30-12-2012, 21:37   #110
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Re: Manson Supreme in Weed

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I'm really quite impressed!

Now - about all those who posted 'other' in the original poll - cannot repost?

It just goes to prove, soemthing?
No, I went through all 13 pages to find the missing and corrected the chart.

Its all upto date
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Old 30-12-2012, 21:57   #111
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Re: Manson Supreme in Weed

Even more impressive.

Now what we need is a reassuring comment from Teeto!
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Old 30-12-2012, 22:01   #112
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Re: Manson Supreme in Weed

The fun begins
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Old 30-12-2012, 22:07   #113
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Re: Manson Supreme in Weed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cotemar View Post
I'm sure he said he was not a wizz with the camera.

Pity he did not include a Kobra!, sorry Cotemar - just a joke


Its been said many times, of previous vids - it is well recognised that both the Rocna and Supreme work. The recognition is such that people swear by them (and they even do well in sophisticated anchor polls). To show them not working (in comparison to a competitor's product, in a vid made by the competitor) beggars belief and simply reduces the credibility of the tests.
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Old 31-12-2012, 00:28   #114
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Re: Manson Supreme in Weed

Polls are generally started by ordinary members. They contain the same spelling mistakes common to Internet forums when people are typing quickly sometime times on smartphones and where English is not the first language.
Of more concern with the anchor poll was that Manson make a large range of anchors, my guess was the OP meant Manson Supreme, but others may have interpreted the categories differently.


The Kobra anchor is becoming quite popular in Mediterranean, so I have seen it action and dived on many examples.

There are 2 models the Kobra 1 has a hinged shank. The Kobra 2 has a fixed shank. The Kobra1 is only available in smaller sizes which are unlikely to used on a cruising yacht.
The Kobra 2 is very good value in Europe.
In performance I would rate it as just slightly worse than the Delta. The Delta and Kobra 2 are however very close and its difficult to separate anchors with this similar performance.
The Delta does has a weakness in soft substrates. I have not seen the Kobra 2 much in these sort of conditions. I suspect the Kobra 2 is similar, but if it can overcome this weakness it would move ahead of the Delta and as it is often cheaper than the already inexpensive Delta.

Both the Delta and the Kobra 2 are well ahead of the older generation anchors at least in everything but soft mud.
However these two anchors cannot match the performance of the top of the line (and expensive) new generation anchors.
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Old 31-12-2012, 00:59   #115
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Re: Manson Supreme in Weed

Hi Noelex,

I'm very much guilty of spelling mistakes (I suspect my brain works more slowly than my fingers) but getting manufacturers names wrong, it was pointed out earlier and not by me, are easy to correct. One might have thought CF would encourage correctness, but

I've also seen both the K1 and K2. I might well be wrong but the K1, which might have originally have been in all sizes, had a slightly dubious folding mechanism. My re-collection is the K2 also folds but the mechanism is a bit more reliable. I thought the K2 replaced the larger K1s. I've tried the Kobra, I'd put it well ahead of the Delta, except for doubts about shank strength and the folding mechanism. I can lend you my model next time you are passing.

Voile et Voileurs, reprinted in English in YW (?), maybe 2011(?) do not recall gave it a good rating - much better than a Delta.

best wishes for 2013.
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Old 31-12-2012, 01:37   #116
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Re: Manson Supreme in Weed

Yes the French magazine test from memory rated the Kobra as the top anchor. A remarkable achievement given its very low cost.

Anchor tests needs to be well designed to achieve meaningful results. Most fall more into the interesting reading category rather than a proper scientific study. I think the yachting world/ sail test has been the best, but even this had limitations and did not include the Kobra. The methodology and statistics would not stand up in a peer reviewed scientific journal.

There was also some suggestion that the French magazine shows a general bias towards French products. ( both the Kobra and Spade are a French design) My French is not really good enough to read the magazine, (which is a pity as they have lots of information on aluminium boats), so I will leave it others to judge is this is a factor.

This is yachting world test:
http://www.alberg37.org/Project%20DB...AnchorTest.pdf

This is the Yachting test that included the Kobra
http://www.manson-marine.co.nz/Ancho...st%20Nov09.pdf

Here is another test
Anchors Aweigh Page 3
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Old 31-12-2012, 01:57   #117
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Re: Manson Supreme in Weed

Hi Noelex,

Sadly I do not think cost, of the anchor, has anything to do with performance and those that want to charge a premium price for a product from a low cost base or a low price for a low cost product - being a right wing capitalist - good luck to them

Cost is what the market will bear and/or what the 'supplier' is trying to achieve.

Testing from a large motor vessel will never stand scientific peer pressure (unless they conduct multiple tests - and its simply too expensive). beach testing has more chance of accountability (and is cheaper) but users prefer real vessels - so need accept the lack of credibility.

Heads you lose, tails you do not win?

Being a Scot, whose anchors have lost out in the developmental stakes I'll bow out of any nationalistic fervour (except to say the input of Gordon Lyall, and his colleagues, has been very sadly overlooked and ignored)
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Old 31-12-2012, 04:57   #118
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Re: Manson Supreme in Weed

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Originally Posted by JonJo View Post
The survey lacks some credibility.

.

Feel free to start your own new thread with a poll and include any choices you wish to on it.

In the mean while the poll results are the poll results and no matter what you don't like about it the poll provides info that is up to each person to decide to use or not. There isn't such a thing as a perfect poll except to the perosn who writes it!

I like to do polls because I've learned that the poll results give a different picture of a question than poster responses that tend to be mostly those with strong feelings.
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Old 31-12-2012, 06:24   #119
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Re: Manson Supreme in Weed

Don,

Maybe Cotemar has done it? And maybe he had strong feelings?

Best wishes,
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Old 31-12-2012, 15:46   #120
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Re: Manson Supreme in Weed

Foggysail,

For some reason I received your post as a notification - but not the post itself.

But I quote from your non-appearing post:

***************
I just noticed the anchor weights!

See! It proves what I commented about in an earlier post, the lighter anchor will bury itself faster. The Manson was 10#, came in last, Rocna 9# ended in the middle and glory be, the Mantus 8 won all the cookies! Damn, where are those smiles I can add here?
***************

unquote.

Well spotted! Obviously smarter around New Year than me!

It not only buries itself but develops a higher capacity.

Interesting experiment, it would be nice to see something similar with 2 different sized anchors, say a 15kg and 20kg, of the same design.

I wonder how the 'big is better' school will reply?

Best wishes,
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