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Kettlewell · 29-12-2012, 07:18

I wrote this on another forum too. I still think it somewhat humorous, in a black sort of way, that people feel it is necessary to utilize a new generation anchor that is not just one size bigger, but in some cases up to twice or more the weight recommended in order to get adequate holding power. When back in the day that same boat would probably have been anchoring with something like a 35 lb. Danforth on mostly rope rode with six feet of chain, with another Danforth put out if a major wind shift was expected. Of course this was prior to widespread use of electric or even manual windlasses, and everything needed to be pulled in by hand so weight was more important. This is progress in anchor design?

Cotemar · 29-12-2012, 07:33

Here is the problem with plow type anchors, Delta & CQR (Convex anchors).
They tend to plow the bottom to the side and pull loose.

**noelex 77** · 29-12-2012, 07:48

Interesting final photo of the Delta.
I have seen the Delta do this quite often when diving. It remains set, but drags slowly while remaining buried. It looks like a worm burrowing under the surface.
Most other anchors don't do this, unless the substrate is very soft. The Delta will do it in hard sand while it it is buried enough to disappear.
Most anchors remain set and hold their position, or breakout then drag very rapidly.

I think the Delta is overall a good anchor, not as good as new generation anchors, but better than the old generation.

However if you own a Delta it is a characteristic that's worth knowing about. If your transits are very slowly changing this may be what is occurring.

Maine Sail · 29-12-2012, 07:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

I wrote this on another forum too. I still think it somewhat humorous, in a black sort of way, that people feel it is necessary to utilize a new generation anchor that is not just one size bigger, but in some cases up to twice or more the weight recommended in order to get adequate holding power. When back in the day that same boat would probably have been anchoring with something like a 35 lb. Danforth on mostly rope rode with six feet of chain, with another Danforth put out if a major wind shift was expected. Of course this was prior to widespread use of electric or even manual windlasses, and everything needed to be pulled in by hand so weight was more important. This is progress in anchor design?

We actually went down in size.....

**noelex 77** · 29-12-2012, 08:01

In regard to objections to a concave shape I don't believe these concerns are valid. It is difficult to come to conclusions about an anchors performance by looking at it, particularly if we only look at one aspect of the design.
However the anchors that most would put at, or at least near, the top of list, Manson Supreme. Spade and Rocna all have concave blades.

I think if want to characterise anchor performance by shape alone we would conclude that a concave blade has definite advantages.

Kettlewell · 29-12-2012, 08:01

Quote:

We actually went down in size.....

Good for you! I do get tired of people saying they switched from a 35-lb CQR to a 70-lb new generation anchor, and boy does it hold!

**noelex 77** · 29-12-2012, 08:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

Good for you! I do get tired of people saying they switched from a 35-lb CQR to a 70-lb new generation anchor, and boy does it hold!

It does make judgments about alternative design difficult, but to me its not surprising. Most cruising people update their anchor because of poor performance from their old anchor. It's natural under these circumstances to increase the weight if the anchor winch etc will accept the small difference.
There has also been a change in ideas with modern theory suggesting more weight in the anchor and less in the chain is a sensible approach.

Personally I went up one anchor size and down one chain size. The total weight is less ( it would be much less, but I also added more chain to be able to anchor in deeper water), but the performance is much better.

foggysail · 29-12-2012, 08:26

Yes chain size. I use 5/16HT. I purchased this stuff only because Maxwell did not offer a 1/4" gypsy.

Cotemar · 29-12-2012, 08:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by noelex 77

The anchors that most would put at, or at least near, the top of list, Manson Supreme, Spade and Rocna all have concave blades.

If I want to characterise anchor performance by shape alone we would conclude that a concave blade has definite advantages.

Concave blade anchors like the Manson Supreme, Spade and Rocna have advantages, but the Manson Supreme and Rocna have the roll bar which allows it to flip over if upside down whereby it will set faster.

The roll bar takes it up a notch

**Mantus Anchors** · 29-12-2012, 11:11

To be honest the Roll bar is just a necessary evil, Spade rights itself just fine... But the volume occupied with led in the nose of the Spade anchor, prevents it from setting in really dense bottoms.
On the question of weight, the likelihood of a set used to relate in a significant way to the weight of the anchor, that is much less of the issue...

Mantus Anchor, Best all-around - YouTube

**Mantus Anchors** · 29-12-2012, 11:25

We just shot this video with anchors being pulled at short scope, I thought you guys would like to see it...

Mantus Anchor vs Manson Supreme, Rocna,Spade 2:1 scope - YouTube

sailorboy1 · 29-12-2012, 11:33

I watched the video with the sound off so maybe the audio had something wort knowing.

I'm just SO surprised that the Mantus made the others look useless. I mean the others didn't set at ALL.

I'm kidding, I would give it more credit if the others looked to have been able to set some and not been completely useless. Now I just just smell a rat somewehre.

Cotemar · 29-12-2012, 11:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Lucas

I watched the video with the sound off so maybe the audio had something wort knowing.

I'm just SO surprised that the Mantus made the others look useless. I mean the others didn't set at ALL.

I'm kidding, I would give it more credit if the others looked to have been able to set some and not been completely useless. Now I just just smell a rat somewehre.

I smell the same RAT. Sort of like the old Rocna video, nothing set except the Rocna. We all know thats not true either.

Do not know anyone who has a Mantus anchor, so no real world data.
If I had a chance to try one it might be different.

I did purchase a Mantus Chain Hook last week, so I can provide some feedback on that in the spring.

**Mantus Anchors** · 29-12-2012, 11:47

Well this just a function of the bottom! in most situations with decent scope thy would all work of-course...
At times you get into a hard packed bottom,,,,, In an emergency you want the best setting anchor, we found a place where others don't set and ours does.... Its a video showing that Mantus has more setting power and does better at short scope...

Below is a practical sailor test at short scope, that shows that not all anchors behave the same at short scope:
http://www.manson-marine.co.nz/Ancho...or%20Tests.pdf

**Mantus Anchors** · 29-12-2012, 11:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cotemar

I smell the same RAT. Sort of like the old Rocna video, nothing set except the Rocna. We all know thats not true either.

Do not know anyone who has a Mantus anchor, so no real world data.
If I had a chance to try one it might be different.

I did purchase a Mantus Chain Hook last week, so I can provide some feedback on that in the spring.

No Rats, just a show of what happens down here on the beach... I am not that good of a video editor