Looking for a Devil's Claw with Positive Lock

[Laidback]

I use proper lifting chain hook designed specifically :
McMaster-Carr

[Palarran]

I'm sure those work great on mono's. The problem is that on a catamaran with a bridle, you either need a hook with a retaining lock or you need to be able to maintain tension on the bridle lines while your lowering the chain. Otherwise, the hook falls off.

[Seahunter]

Originally Posted by Palarran

I'm sure those work great on mono's. The problem is that on a catamaran with a bridle, you either need a hook with a retaining lock or you need to be able to maintain tension on the bridle lines while your lowering the chain. Otherwise, the hook falls off.

Obviously a misunderstanding. All boats should use a bridle while anchoring; it relieves the windlass, while preventing chaffing on the swing and two cleats are better than one. For your application a single 8800lb locking hook with 2 links installed on it's eye will suffice. The bridle is then attached to the links. A devils claw is merely used to retain or lift the chain while under tension, and I've never seen a locking one for recreational boating. You will find one though on aircraft carriers and freighters.
McMaster-Carr

[Palarran]

Thanks for the info Laidback and SeaHunter. I don't think I was suggesting that boats not use a bridle but I didn't realize that all boats used a double line attachment like you do with catamarans. Anyways, I like your suggestion of the locking hook. It certainly is beefy enough. How do you think it will fair with saltwater? They are made of powder coated steel.

For the immediate time I've ordered a Wichard snap hook. It's 3700 lb working load is the strongest I've found so far. What I'm not sure of is how to attach it to the bridle thimbles. Webbing?

[Seahunter]

Palarran, I'm not fond of stainless fittings used anywhere an anchor is being deployed; they don't deform, they just break. I keep the anchor fitting, swivel, hook etc. in condition with an anti-corrosion spray (like what's used on battery posts). Pick your own some are less messy than others, but will keep the locking pin and swivel free. As for the bridle, getting webbing that's strong enough is the problem. You can just use some braided dock lines with an anchor bend, but I use two of these (heavy and 24" versions); SHOCKLES® - Simpy Brilliant products for Boats, Sailboats, Boating, Sailing, Home and Outdoors with the combiners replaced with galvanized quick links.
Good Luck and happy anchoring.

[Mark Johnson]

We use a chain fork, (rather than a hook), to snub the chain for setting, because it doesn't turn the link that's under load sideways. This is not the way a chain was designed to take a load.

The fork keeps all of the links in line. This is more important with the fact that we use small 1/4" HT chain on our 34' Tri.

We always have a bridle rigged up and ready to go. It is stored on cleats welded on the bow rail. It has thimbles on each leg, made up around a 2.5"ring. There is a third thimble on this ring, between the other two. It has a 3' section of three strand rope made up around it. We call it the pigtail.

After setting the hook well, we pull forward 30' and throw the bridle in the water, while hanging on to the middle "pig tail". Then reaching over the bow rail, I tie a rolling hitch around either the chain or rope portion of our combination rode. Either holds well.

A rolling hitch has held us through thousands of nights on the hook, even in a catagory 1!

Any fork OR hook, connected to a long enough bridle that it sometimes sits on the bottom, can easily come undone in light winds. The rolling hitch does not.

The system works well for cats also, you just have to store the bridle in any fashion that works for you.

Mark

[CarinaPDX]

Agreed that:

1) A chain hook places a torque on the chain when taking 100% of the load straight from the chain, creating a weak spot. Chain hooks should be used to split the load only.

2) Devils claws and forks are the proper tools but need to be secured to the chain if there is a chance the juncture would lay on the bottom.

3) Rolling hitches are a fine solution (and the one I have used most). Caveat: they can sometimes come undone before the knot tightens, so tighten the hitch well and put a couple of half hitches on the tail. Once loaded for a while it is very reliable.

I don't think a bridle is necessary on monohulls if a snubber can be rigged on the centerline. I have a hole in the cutwater fitting (bottom of bobstay) for this purpose and have left a snubber attached when anchoring every night. These days I rig a bridle attached just aft of the whisker stays on both sides which keeps all the gear more accessible on deck. BTW use braid, not 3 strand which twists under load, for snubber/bridle.

I don't like the idea of putting the load on a threaded clevis pin unless it is seized from turning, which is a lot of work to do/undo every time one anchors.

These are three devils claws I have. The one on the left is from a rigging company and is designed for chain on both ends - it doesn't fit my high tensile chain. The middle one is a weldment I picked up in Turkey - it is easy to get on, works well with a single snubber line, and comes off far too easily. I am nervous about depending on welds. The claw on the right is a beautiful casting from Italy - it goes on well, is a little difficult to remove (because the link is deep in the pocket), and is easy to lash the links in place. The eye is big enough to attach two lines for a bridle, or to run a line through, around the hook, and back out. I love Italian stainless...

Greg

[CarinaPDX]

I should add that the Italian devils claw above can only be put on or off chain by bending the chain. During lowering or lifting the weight of the chain keeps it straight and the claw doesn't come off. The only need for lashing is if the bridle reaches the bottom.

Greg

[Mark Johnson]

With multihulls, a bridle length of about 30' is about right for a 21' wide boat. It isn't just as a snubber, it is what keeps them facing dead into the wind with NO sawing around. (MUCH less strain on the anchor that way).

We frequently anchor in as little as 6' of water, in protected anchorages. The wind goes light, or to "0" on occasion, and the bridle chain junction will lay loose on the bottom. This is when a "non safety secured" hook or fork can come un done.

Once we switched to a rolling hitch on the chain, the problem went away!

Before we had a 110' section of chain, and used mostly a rope rode, I tied in the "pigtail" using a Bowline through a bite. This is where you twist a bight in the rope rode, and tie a bowline through it with the leg of the "pigtail". It is a VERY secure, easy to untie knot. It is true that the knot weakens the rode, becoming the weak link, but when I used a 95% rope rode, I used 5/8" rope for a good safety margin.

As previously observed, a rolling hitch needs to be "cinched up" before it is secure. We do this by hand first, then when we fall back 35', to put the load totally on the bridle, we back down hard, gradually reaching full reverse. It sets the hook AND the rolling hitch. It can now sit on the bottom with NO risk of coming untied at all.

The "pigtail" is best made from N.E.R. three strand. After you tie the rolling hitch, it grips really well on the chain.

I used to make the legs of the bridle from double braid nylon for ease of handling, but when I switched to a mostly chain rode I needed more stretch. Then we switched to three strand nylon. Since the leg is essentially "fixed" at both ends, it can not unlay under load, and this has never been a problem. (The "ring" on the connecting end of the bridle, becomes VERY resistant to spinning, in direct proportion to the load going up.

When we replace our current "aging" bridle, I will switch to nylon brait, AKA plait, for its ease of handling AND high stretch characteristics.

I find the widely attached bridle, to be one of multihull's biggest advantages! (SECURITY AT ANCHOR). Facing the wind, I can pull our boat forward, (just a bit), in over 30 knots of wind. Once it veers off 10 degrees, not so! SAWING AROUND QUADRUPLES THE LOAD ON YOUR ANCHOR!

By having our bridle rigged up and ready to go, it only takes an extra minute to rig up, and we are never tempted to omit it... even on a calm night.

Pictured, is setting the hook, before attaching the bridle...

M

[boatman61]

Well this is all I came up with after a Google Search for a Devils Claw....
Holland & Barrets at $5.99
Good N Natural - Devils Claw Capsules (510mg)
The root of Devil's Claw has been used in Africa and Europe for about three hundred years. The name Devil's Claw is derived from its large, hooked claw-like fruit.

Hope its helps...

[cliffdykes]

Originally Posted by Mark Johnson

With multihulls, a bridle length of about 30' is about right for a 21' wide boat. It isn't just as a snubber, it is what keeps them facing dead into the wind with NO sawing around. (MUCH less strain on the anchor that way).

We frequently anchor in as little as 6' of water, in protected anchorages. The wind goes light, or to "0" on occasion, and the bridle chain junction will lay loose on the bottom. This is when a "non safety secured" hook or fork can come un done.

Once we switched to a rolling hitch on the chain, the problem went away!

Before we had a 110' section of chain, and used mostly a rope rode, I tied in the "pigtail" using a Bowline through a bite. This is where you twist a bight in the rope rode, and tie a bowline through it with the leg of the "pigtail". It is a VERY secure, easy to untie knot. It is true that the knot weakens the rode, becoming the weak link, but when I used a 95% rope rode, I used 5/8" rope for a good safety margin.

As previously observed, a rolling hitch needs to be "cinched up" before it is secure. We do this by hand first, then when we fall back 35', to put the load totally on the bridle, we back down hard, gradually reaching full reverse. It sets the hook AND the rolling hitch. It can now sit on the bottom with NO risk of coming untied at all.

The "pigtail" is best made from N.E.R. three strand. After you tie the rolling hitch, it grips really well on the chain.

I used to make the legs of the bridle from double braid nylon for ease of handling, but when I switched to a mostly chain rode I needed more stretch. Then we switched to three strand nylon. Since the leg is essentially "fixed" at both ends, it can not unlay under load, and this has never been a problem. (The "ring" on the connecting end of the bridle, becomes VERY resistant to spinning, in direct proportion to the load going up.

When we replace our current "aging" bridle, I will switch to nylon brait, AKA plait, for its ease of handling AND high stretch characteristics.

I find the widely attached bridle, to be one of multihull's biggest advantages! (SECURITY AT ANCHOR). Facing the wind, I can pull our boat forward, (just a bit), in over 30 knots of wind. Once it veers off 10 degrees, not so! SAWING AROUND QUADRUPLES THE LOAD ON YOUR ANCHOR!

By having our bridle rigged up and ready to go, it only takes an extra minute to rig up, and we are never tempted to omit it... even on a calm night.

Pictured, is setting the hook, before attaching the bridle...

M

Hi Mark,
Thanks for your informative post. Two questions:
1. I'm assuming you are saying that each leg of the bridle is 30feet for a 21 foot beam. Is this correct?
2. How do you secure the bridle to the amas?

Many thanks
Cliff

[Mark Johnson]

Cliff, Yes that's around 30' beyond the ama bows, on a 21' wide boat. (give or take a few feet)

A bit longer is fine, except for the convinience issue, however, a lot shorter really reduces the bridle's ability to hold her locked straight into the wind.

I run the bridle through rounded, "screw closed bow chocks", on the inside ama bows. Then they go back to ama cleats that you could lift the boat by. (I use a spliced eye to go through and then around the cleat.)

At the closed chock, I use polyester chaff gear. Since this cleat, to chock, to bridle apex, angle (when deployed), is close to a straight line, the chock only deflects the bridle about 10 degrees. (in and down a bit) = Not much chaff.

In cases where I am being "really slapped around" by waves that are deflected by an island, thereby coming from say... 15 degrees to the side of the wind direction... I pull in one bridle leg 2 or 3 feet, and wrap this excess around the cleat. Some hours later, when the tide changes, I may go out and reverse the "short leg" arrangement. Of coarse when I do this, I put new split tube chaff gear on the now unprotected bridle leg, to be removed later.

In moderate winds, I want to face the WAVES for comfort. This coincides with the wind direction 95% of the time. The above is what I do ONLY in the other 5% of the time.

In 40 knots of wind, you can't do much to tighten on one bridle leg, but in this much wind, the waves almost always come from the wind direction. In a pinch, even then you could shorten one side with engine assist. (which I've never had to do).

For normal anchoring... (up to, but not above, a 60 knot thunderstorm), I use a streatchy 3/8" bridle. The load is divided between the legs, and the primary rode is still there as a safety, so this is plenty large enough!

For the parachute deployment, (never had to do it)... and hurricanes, (been through about a dozen), I have a MUCH stouter 40' bridle of 5/8" double braid, with a 5/8" "pigtail". (I double up the chaff gear)... In this situation, I am always tying to rope, not my "primary anchors" mostly chain rode. I therefore use a "bowline through a bite" as I am attaching to rope, not chain, and it is more secure knot under this load.

Having said that, our standard bridle, using a rolling hitch, has gotten us through countless 60+ knot thunderstorms, without a problem.

I learned in Hurricane "IVAN the terrible", that when a storm is approaching or above a catagory 4, vynil tubing and rubber chaff gear tends to melt the rope! I even had one line of 1" double braid @ (30,000# BL), POP from the strain!

Many of my 21 lines melted in the tubing, but the ones protected by polyester textile chaff gear did not. They were ruined, but didn't melt.

Sorry, I'm getting pedantic... Bottom line, multihulls need a "normal" easy to deploy stretchy bridle that is just strong enough, and a VERY stout"storm" bridle.

Mark

[DRSandbo]

Greg,

Any info on the mfg of the Italian claw on the right? TIA.

[Seahunter]

Originally Posted by CarinaPDX

Agreed that:

I don't think a bridle is necessary on monohulls if a snubber can be rigged on the centerline. I have a hole in the cutwater fitting (bottom of bobstay) for this purpose and have left a snubber attached when anchoring every night. These days I rig a bridle attached just aft of the whisker stays on both sides which keeps all the gear more accessible on deck. BTW use braid, not 3 strand which twists under load, for snubber/bridle.

Greg

While a double bridle may not always be necessary on a mono hull, they come in handy with a deep set and lumpy water with a heavy boat or in areas where sudden wind changes frequents. One only has to check the shoreline of Catalina Island late summer to see the results of poor anchoring techniques. Having learned lessons of my own in the past, I choose to do what works for me.

[CarinaPDX]

DRSandbo: I googled a bit and found a source in Canada:

For 1/4"-5/16" (6mm-8mm) chain:
Victory 1/4-5/16 Chain Hook - Pride Marine - Ontario Canada

For 3/8"-1/2" (10mm-12mm) chain:
Victory 3/8"-1/2" Chain Hook - Pride Marine - Ontario Canada

For $20 and $50 Canadian respectively these are less than half the prices in Europe. Not sure how they do that, but a very good deal.

Seahunter: I wrote that I am using a bridle these days so I don't disagree; it does cut down the yawing at anchor a bit better than a single snubber, and is easier to deal with on deck than the snubber attached to the cutwater. I do think that the cutwater is a big improvement to securing the snubber on deck, and never plays a tune on the bobstay. But for bad weather I prefer the bridle too, not the least because I can get it free much easier if I had to cast off the anchor gear.

In the beginning of my cruise I anchored in Catalina Bay during a thunderstorm in February 1994. The winds kept changing directions suddenly every few minutes, and came from all four quarters. My anchor dragged early in the storm (towards shore, of course). I ended up with three anchors out in different directions. It was a terrifying experience for a novice. In the 15 years since then I rarely encountered anything so dangerous at anchor. So much for mellow California cruising...