Lofrans - How to Test the Control Box?

[tribe]

We have a Lofrans Tigres and it was working intermittently a few weeks ago and now nothing - no up or down. When we push the switch the control box makes a click but no motor movement. This is the same regardless of the up or down switch being pressed.
All cables are of ample size (as per Lofrans manual) and are in great condition.
Here is what I have tested - 1) I checked all wire connections and they are tight (motor, inline circuit breaker, control box, battery), 2) I manually tripped the inline circuit breated and reset it, 3) I meter checked the brushes and they (all) are making good contact, 4) I tried to "jump" over the control box but I get no change - I am not sure it is possible to jump the control box?
Any ideas or is there a way to test the control box? I have not tried to take the top of the control box off but that may be next.
Thanks ahead of time!

[noelex 77]

I think the tigres is a 3 pole control box ( 3 thick conection posts)

If so this is procedure to "jump" the control box. It's worth checking carefully as this is a very common failure.

Take the chain off the gypsy.
Turn the CB off
Find the + feed from the battery (this will be one of the big poles) if you cannot identify it post a photo of the control box.
Take off the wire and put it on one of the other thick poles ( one is for up one for down).
Turn the CB on

The winch should spin
This test removes the switches and the control box.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

I think the tigres is a 3 pole control box ( 3 thick conection posts)

If so this is procedure to "jump" the control box. It's worth checking carefully as this is a very common failure.

Take the chain off the gypsy.
Turn the CB off
Find the + feed from the battery (this will be one of the big poles) if you cannot identify it post a photo of the control box.
Take off the wire and put it on one of the other thick poles ( one is for up one for down).
Turn the CB on

The winch should spin
This test removes the switches and the control box.

Right.

Jumper from + to either M1 or M2, which bypasses the solenoid, applying power directly to the motor.

Wiring Diagram Page 17 ➥ http://www.safety-marine.co.uk/downl...ual.pdf?did=66

[tribe]

Thanks guys...
I tested the control box as you outlined but the motor still didn't turn.

I also put a meter on the motor polls and was getting over 12v on each when the respective (up/down) switch was pushed.

It is sounding like it could be the motor?? Any suggestions?

Cheers

[noelex 77]

You have already checked the brushes which is normally the next step.
If the gearbox is jammed it usually still give a bit of a jump when you apply 12v to the motor. If its not doing this it's very likely to be the motor.

I would remove the motor and take it to an automotive electrician. If they can repair alternators they are usually skilled to repair the motor.

The other option is buy a new motor. I fixed one or a fellow cruiser a year or so ago. The motor repair was a bit tempory so he ordered a new motor and had someone when he next got to a marina. I don't rember the cost, but it was resonable. He told me they had updated the motor to 1200w from 1000w.

[noelex 77]

Just had a look in my SVB catalogue and the motor is listed as 499 euro = $620

This is a German retail price, but will give you a ball park.

[tribe]

Thanks Noelex 77!
I am going to check the gearbox just to be sure it is moving free.. Assuming it is OK, I will then try to find an auto electrician here and see what they can do. I guess worse case I will have to order a new motor... shipping and duty into Guatemala (my current location) may increase the cost a bit but hey, better than being land locked!

Cheers

[tribe]

Well, I checked the gearbox and all is free. I then checked the current on the polls on the motor (at the windless) and a weird thing.. When i pushed the down swith i would get current at poth the up and down pols on the motor. I then disconnected the positive cables from the poles on the motor; i then connected only the Up cable and tested - when the switch was pressed (for Up) I would get 12.5v on the poll the Up is now connected to but I also got a reading of 12.5v on the other poll (with nothing connected directly to it) on the motor. It is like the current is jumping to the Down inside the motor. I get the same thing (opposite) when i only connect the Down cable and press the down switch; I get a reading of 12.5v on the positive poll. Does this mean the motor is shorting out?? (hope this all made sense)

Cheers

[noelex 77]

No sorry it did not make sense to me.

If you have direct access to the motor poles one of the foolproof test you can do is:

Make sure the chain is removed and the gypsy can spin safely
Turn off the CB
Take off the + feed direct from the batter off the solenoid. Attach this wire directly to either the up or down poles of the motor ( usually one of the outside poles) it does not matter which + pole.
The - direct from the battery should still be attached to - pole of the motor (usually the center one)

Turn on he CB and he motor should spin. At the same time have a multimeter hooked up to the motor poles so you can verify the motor is getting 12v.

If it does not spin and the multimeter verifies 12v is present then there is a problem with the motor.

[Cotemar]

Make sure that the brushes move freely. Mine where binding up and not touching the armature.
Sanded down the sides of the brushed a little and it worked great after that.

[tribe]

Thanks - I tested motor as Noelex 77 described above and no movement of the motor even though the multimeter was registering 12v+ ... One question - Should I get a 12v reading from "both" the poles the even though I am only connecting one of them? In other words, the pole on the motor that does not have a wire hoked to it gives me a reading of 12v when the juice is applied to the other + pole on the motor.

I am going to try Cotemar's suggestion on the brushes and see if that helps... I think they are OK but I will give it a go.

Cheers

[Bassplayer]

Tribe - a voice from the future. Did you fix the windlass? I think I'm seeing the same on my Tigres, 12V on both positive poles on the motor, no matter whether I press "Up" or "Down" on the remote. I was thinking that this meant the control box is hosed. But after reading your post, I think I will disconnect both of the positive leads from the windlass motor and measure voltages coming out of the control box.

[Bycrick]

The Tigress motor has two windings: one for up and one for down. There are three connections on the motor: an UP positive, a down positive and a COMMON NEGATIVE.

If the common negative connection is bad, when you apply +12 to either of the positive connections, you can see 12v on the other positive connection.

I’d very carefully check all of the negative connections and cables before I ordered a new motor.

[Bassplayer]

Originally Posted by Bycrick

The Tigress motor has two windings: one for up and one for down. There are three connections on the motor: an UP positive, a down positive and a COMMON NEGATIVE.

If the common negative connection is bad, when you apply +12 to either of the positive connections, you can see 12v on the other positive connection.

I’d very carefully check all of the negative connections and cables before I ordered a new motor.

Thanks Bycrick.

I disconnected the 3 cables to the control box and measured the voltages on them with no motor to affect things. No surprises, the control box is fine. I think I've got an open circuit between the common negative terminal on the motor and the inner windings, about to verify with the meter. Maybe it's a brush problem. I've never check them before but it's time to educate myself.