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Old 07-12-2014, 06:11   #1
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Lofrans chain vs chain-rope gypsies

What are the differences between a Lofrans chain gypsy and their chain-rope gypsy? I am now in the Med and 150ft of chain in no longer sufficient so I want to use my current gypsy (3/8PC - Lofrans #276h) with a combination of rope and chain but the Lofrans' web site says I have a chain only gypsy. Anyone know what the difference is and what the consequences of running rope through it are?
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Old 07-12-2014, 06:24   #2
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Re: Lofrans chain vs chain-rope gypsies

The rope-chain gypsy differs by having a specifically designed groove in it underneath the chain part that grabs rope and allows the transition to the chain part of the gypsy when the chain appears.

A chain-only gypsy will not grab and bring up rope. There won't be any consequence for running rope through it because the rope won't run through it. If your windlass is one with a separate rope drum, then you can bring the rope up on that and manually transition the chain onto the gypsy. Otherwise, you will need to bring the rope up by hand and put the chain onto the gypsy when it arrives.

If you plan on using rope often, then the combination gypsy is highly desirable.

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Old 07-12-2014, 06:44   #3
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Re: Lofrans chain vs chain-rope gypsies

I am sure you are right about the rope-chain gypsy but to change the gypsy it look like I will have to change the chain too - an expensive proposition. When I run a short length of 8 plat 22mm rope (3/4" = 20mm) through, it does grab some. It does not grab well enough to crank the boat forward but enough to pull in the line if there is not a lot of pressure on it. It also sheds the line appropriately it seems. Does the rope-chain gypsy prevent the rope slipping totally and are the strippers different?
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Old 07-12-2014, 07:19   #4
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Re: Lofrans chain vs chain-rope gypsies

Yes, the rope-chain gypsy grabs the rope and brings it in under load just like the chain does. Generally, they use the same strippers, but I don't know about your specific windlass.

Are you sure you need to change the chain? It seems strange that Lofrans would make two nominally same sized gypsies that took different specific chain.

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Old 07-12-2014, 09:21   #5
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Re: Lofrans chain vs chain-rope gypsies

I am using PC 3/8". I hope I am wrong but Lofrans does not seem to make a single rope-chain gypsy for PC chain based on their 2014 chain wheel chart. My current gypsy can handle PC and HT 3/8" so maybe they are close enough but I've seen chain jump and it is not a pretty sight. I will call Lofrans rep tomorrow morning to check.

The unfortunate thing is that getting good chain will not be easy in Turkey where I am now so I may buy some throw away chain until I can find some good stuff or just know it has to be re-galvanized almost immediately.

If you have some other ideas please let me know.
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Old 07-12-2014, 10:01   #6
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Re: Lofrans chain vs chain-rope gypsies

If you want good quality chain Italy particuarly Maggi make some great chain. There is no problem getting it delivered to one of the nearby Greek islands.

However, some of the third world countries have very good quality galvanising I suspect the reduced H&S restrictions help.

Some 3/8 gypsies are also suitable for metric chain. Be aware that there are two metric sizes of 10 mm chain so check carefully.

This is a link worth reading, including some testing of Chinese chain:
Chain
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Old 07-12-2014, 10:26   #7
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Re: Lofrans chain vs chain-rope gypsies

The chafe of the rope on the gypsy that is built to catch chain will shorten the life of the rope. Rope needs a contraption similar to what you find on a deck winch.
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Old 09-12-2014, 09:17   #8
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Re: Lofrans chain vs chain-rope gypsies

I was just told by Imtra, a US dealer for Lofrans, that the Tigres windlass is for chain only and not intended to handle rope at all. So I'll have to make do until I get to Greece I guess and then add chain.


Any thoughts on piecing chain together?
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Old 09-12-2014, 10:03   #9
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Re: Lofrans chain vs chain-rope gypsies

Ostinato,
I'm really surprised about the response you got from Imtra. If you go to the Lofrans website (Horizontal Windlasses - Tigres) it shows a Tigres with a rope/chain wheel. It also has a rope drum on the opposite side. Something must have gotten garbled in your communications.

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Old 09-12-2014, 10:32   #10
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Re: Lofrans chain vs chain-rope gypsies

jstevens - I have the same Tigres windlass with what I thought was a rope/chain gypsy but when you check for the gypsy choice (in spare parts), they do not differentiate between chain only and rope chain. Am I missing something?

And what type of oil should go into the gearbox?

I also purchased some 8 plaint line, (but not yet connected) - can I expect it to fall into the chain locker just like chain?

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Old 09-12-2014, 10:40   #11
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Re: Lofrans chain vs chain-rope gypsies

It is often practical to just lift the rope rode by hand. If you motor forward the only weight will be final lift to get the chain on the gypsy. The maximium weight will be the length of chain between the bottom and the gypsy.

For example with 10mm chain which weighs 2.1 Kg per metre, in 10m of water the maximum weight, just as the chain reaches the gypsy will be 10 + the distance between the gypsy and water (say 2m). So 12x2.1= 25.2 kg. You need to make some allowance for the friction and change in direction of pull of the bow roller, but if you can pull say 35-40 kg then a 10m depth should be OK. This maximium magnitude of pull will only occur right at the end.

All chain rode has a lot of advantages in chafe resistance and simply in ease of use, eliminating the transition between rope and chain.

Consider the use of hi tensile (G7 or similar) chain. This will have a similar strength to G3-G4 in one size smaller. With one size smaller you can almost double the length for the same weight.
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Old 09-12-2014, 10:55   #12
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Re: Lofrans chain vs chain-rope gypsies

Nolex - understand completely but how to handle the rope until the chain arrives? The Tigress has an opening for the chain:
so how do I manually feed the rope down thru this when pulling up by hand?
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Old 09-12-2014, 10:56   #13
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Re: Lofrans chain vs chain-rope gypsies

Ed,
Here is a table from the Lofrans installation manual which specs the chain and rope size for the various chain wheels.

Lofrans2014-12-09_1253 - jstevens8352's library
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Old 09-12-2014, 13:29   #14
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Re: Lofrans chain vs chain-rope gypsies

Interesting - the wheel looks identical to mine which is the Loran's 276H (3/8 PC). It has nothing special for capturing the rope and not any of the gypsys listed for rope /cain on the Chain/wheel chart Imtra puts out fit the Tigres. http://IWASNOTSSL-www.imtra.com/collateral/docu...heel_chart.pdf

JStevens chart is also interesting. Imtra also lists the Tigres on their site in the rope/chain area. I'll call them back.
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Old 09-12-2014, 13:53   #15
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Re: Lofrans chain vs chain-rope gypsies

I called Imtra back and spoke to a different tech. He said all horizontal Lofrans windlasses are chain only and there is nothing on the gypsy that will provide traction for the rope especially when it is wet. The little experimentation I've done supports this.

The rope references probably refers to the drum but I'd love to get the source link for the chart JSteven's put up.
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