Let's Talk Grounding Tackle

[svHannabel]

Originally Posted by JK n Smitty

“You know you’re a cruiser when other boaters look at your anchor and say it’s too big.” – Unknown internet quote (can’t remember where I read it but it sounds good to me)

I think I first saw a variation on that quote in Beth Leonard's book (Voyager's Handbook) and she attributed it to Steve Dashew: "You know you've got the right anchor when people start laughing at it as you carry in it down the dock."

[evm1024]

Originally Posted by Fortytwo

Do you mean 3/8" Crosby shackle? The 1/2" Crosby has a all of ~7340lbs and the pin is to big for 5/16" G4 chain.

For the OP:

Take a look at Crosby G-209A shackles

http://industrialrigging.ca/Products...%20Shackle.pdf

Higher strength....

Also the 3/8" will fit your 5/16" G4 chain and you may find that a 7/16" shackle will also fit as well. It may not make full contact in the link.

Regards

[S/V Alchemy]

Originally Posted by JK n Smitty

big snip

All together this would put me at 3-4 anchors onboard. I think that would give me some good flexibility with different types for different conditions. As usual, feed back is always appreciated.

Cross posted on Catalina 310 Owner's Forum and my blog.

I just read this and found it quite refreshingly logical and objective, two terms not so common in "anchor threads".

I can see very little wrong with your basic assumptions, basically assuming you can handle and adequately stow that much chain rode and a 35 lb. Manson on your boat. I hope it's worked out to your satisfaction.

[S/V Alchemy]

Originally Posted by JK n Smitty

On the stern anchor for slowing down approaching bridges, I don't think this couple was pulling our leg. I think this was an honest concern they had during their cruise on the ICW and a technique they used. Doesn't make it the right way to go.

I didn't acknowledge this bit because I assumed you were joking. What your friends were suggesting is a great way to ventilate the stern with hatch holes where the stern cleats used to be.

The proper technique approaching a closed bridge is to learn how to keep station ("hover") under power. Depending on "traffic", wind and current, this takes practice, but it's basic stuff where one has lift or bascule bridges.



Here, I'm in gear, dead slow, against wind and current, both light. I'm in neutral about 75% of the time, meaning I'm going forward about 1/2 of a knot. I have plenty of distance from the bridge, which is about halfway up here. I have a handheld in the cockpit on the bridge operator's channel, the base VHF on ch. 16 and a 12 year old kid watching the signals and telling me about nearby boats (both behind me here). My sails are furled and my fenders are out in case I run into someone less prepared and/or panicky.

No stern anchor required! If the engine died, I would raise the main, sail out of the channel and anchor off until I could fix the engine...hopefully, in
under one hour until the next bridge lift.

[pistarckle]

If you must hit a bridge and the current is carrying you towards it , turn the boat sideways to the bridge and go under , the boat should heel when it hits . There are several videos on the net of this happening . The boats lost antennas and lights and seemed to suffer no other damage . It sounds like fun , I think that I will go and try it !!
Somewhere is a video of a small sailboat hung up on a bridge a being lifted
.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by FSMike

I've got a lot of ICW bridge experience. Don't think in terms of the bridge tender's timing, think in terms of timing your approach to the opening. The bridge tender is in control, it's your job to deal with it.

Using a stern anchor to stop/slow for a bridge is nuts. What about the other boat traffic that would have to deal with a suddenly anchored boat in the middle of the channel? As another poster said, turn around quickly or apply full reverse. When I have the current behind me I usually turn around and face into the current while waiting for the bridge, then spin around when it's time to go through the bridge.

Lastly, bridges open at widely varying rates of speed.

Exactly.

I also spent more than a decade cruising SW Florida and sailing a lot in the ICW. ("Sanibel Bridge, Sanibel Bridge, Sanibel Bridge, this is Sailing Vessel X . . . ")

You would first of all never charge a closed bridge at high speed. This is insanely stupid. What you do is you hover or orbit at a certain distance from the bridge and wait for it to start opening. Then you proceed at a speed calculated to get you there at the right time with a comfortable margin of error. There is absolutely no need whatsover to turn it into some kind of drama. Like most things at sea, getting through opening bridges should be done deliberately, calmly, smoothly, with good planning and coordination.

In my experience, the bridge operators on the ICW are highly professional and very courteous. I always talk to them on the radio and agree the timing. There is always plenty of time to get through -- they would never suddenly close the bridge to put anyone in danger. They open -- you pass through -- they watch you get through -- they close, leaving a comfortable margin. Absolutely no need for any kind of drama.


As to stopping quickly in this or any other situation: throwing out an anchor is much slower and more awkward, plus more risky than just about any other way to stop. The only reason to stop this way is in a terrible emergency where you've lost power and, probably also steerage. It takes a fair amount of time to get an anchor out, even if it is rigged for quick deployment -- so even if the maneuver is successful, it will take much more time and distance to stop compared to using your rudder and/or engine. Plus, there is a risk that the rode will get tangled. Plus, there is a signficant risk that the anchor will not immediately set. Plus, once it's down, you have to get it back up again, and you are immobilized -- in a channel in front of a bridge?? That is very poor seamanship, putting other vessels at risk. If the person who told you this was not joking, then I shudder to think . . .

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy

I didn't acknowledge this bit because I assumed you were joking. What your friends were suggesting is a great way to ventilate the stern with hatch holes where the stern cleats used to be.

The proper technique approaching a closed bridge is to learn how to keep station ("hover") under power. Depending on "traffic", wind and current, this takes practice, but it's basic stuff where one has lift or bascule bridges.



Here, I'm in gear, dead slow, against wind and current, both light. I'm in neutral about 75% of the time, meaning I'm going forward about 1/2 of a knot. I have plenty of distance from the bridge, which is about halfway up here. I have a handheld in the cockpit on the bridge operator's channel, the base VHF on ch. 16 and a 12 year old kid watching the signals and telling me about nearby boats (both behind me here). My sails are furled and my fenders are out in case I run into someone less prepared and/or panicky.

No stern anchor required! If the engine died, I would raise the main, sail out of the channel and anchor off until I could fix the engine...hopefully, in
under one hour until the next bridge lift.

That's the way to do it!

[gjordan]

I agree that using a stern anchor as an emergency brake is a bad idea, but if cruising, you should always have the ability to set a stern hook for those times that you arrive in an anchorage full of boats that are already anchored bow and stern. If you come in thinking you are going to swing to one hook, you will be very unwelcome. Also, there are many anchorages where the wind goes light or dies at night. Laying sideways to a swell is not a way to get a good nights sleep. With your storm anchor apart in the bilge, I would still want a nice big main hook, and two lighter (danforth is good) anchors quickly available if needed. Bow and stern anchoring is another valuable tool in a cruisers tool box. ______Grant.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by gjordan

I agree that using a stern anchor as an emergency brake is a bad idea, but if cruising, you should always have the ability to set a stern hook for those times that you arrive in an anchorage full of boats that are already anchored bow and stern. If you come in thinking you are going to swing to one hook, you will be very unwelcome. Also, there are many anchorages where the wind goes light or dies at night. Laying sideways to a swell is not a way to get a good nights sleep. With your storm anchor apart in the bilge, I would still want a nice big main hook, and two lighter (danforth is good) anchors quickly available if needed. Bow and stern anchoring is another valuable tool in a cruisers tool box. ______Grant.

I've only anchored bow and stern once in a couple decades of cruising. And I've never seen an anchorage full of boats anchored bow and stern. I'm not sure I've ever seen another boat anchored bow and stern.

But if such a situation did arise, Grant is right-- you must not be anchored differently from other boats in a crowded anchorage, or there will be collisions. Amount of scope should also be the same as everone else. I've always thought that we should have flags up showing how much scope we have out -- maybe two flags, one for depth where we're anchored, and another showing the amount of rode out.

As to what anchor to choose for this -- the overwhelming favorite of long-term cruisers is the Fortress. Very light, extremely aggressive in setting, extremely tenacious in holding, beautifully made --the Fortress is the ideal kedge anchor. I have one in my anchor locker fully rigged with 300 feet of chain/rope rode, ready to go at any instant when it might be needed.

[S/V Alchemy]

I'm quite pleased with my Fortress, too. I'm lucky that the local holding favours its use, however, as a primary (it's oversized on the boat I'm using it on). It gives me a nice feeling when my grade-school son can deploy it and haul it back (once I've reduced the scope to 1:1!).

On our larger boat, the Fortress will come along as kedge, lunch hook and stern anchor. It's light enough to easily move across the deck. I'm thinking Sarca or Spade for the primary.

[gjordan]

There has been another recent thread on the anchor forum that is worth reading thru, called "BY SHOW OF HANDS STERN ANCHORING". I dont know how to do a link, but it is easy to find. As usual on the anchoring forum there is a lot of "I always" or "I never", but a lot of people have used this technique at some time or another, depending on conditions. As I said before, it is just another tool in the cruisers tool box. _____Grant.

[JK n Smitty]

Originally Posted by gjordan

There has been another recent thread on the anchor forum that is worth reading thru, called "BY SHOW OF HANDS STERN ANCHORING". I dont know how to do a link, but it is easy to find. As usual on the anchoring forum there is a lot of "I always" or "I never", but a lot of people have used this technique at some time or another, depending on conditions. As I said before, it is just another tool in the cruisers tool box. _____Grant.

Thanks

I am thinking of having a stern anchor available but if it's in a cockpit storage locker that should work fine.

Thanks again to all that chimed in.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I've only anchored bow and stern once in a couple decades of cruising. And I've never seen an anchorage full of boats anchored bow and stern. I'm not sure I've ever seen another boat anchored bow and stern.

.

While I don't think it is a great practice, there are several anchorages in the SoCal Channel islands where population pressure and environmental factors have made bow and stern anchoring standard practice. Thus, hundreds of boats annually use these techniques. I bet that there are other such locales in the cruising world.

Cheers,

Jim

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

While I don't think it is a great practice, there are several anchorages in the SoCal Channel islands where population pressure and environmental factors have made bow and stern anchoring standard practice. Thus, hundreds of boats annually use these techniques. I bet that there are other such locales in the cruising world.

Cheers,

Jim

Interesting. Never seen such a place in any of the areas I've sailed in.

[Blue Crab]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

... Amount of scope should also be the same as everone else. I've always thought that we should have flags up showing how much scope we have out -- maybe two flags, one for depth where we're anchored, and another showing the amount of rode out...

As much as this makes sense, it would still rely on the neighboring boats knowing what the flags meant. Not happening. And the more crowded the anchorage, the less likely. As Zee noted on another thread yesterday, even when she told newcomers how much chain she had out, they didn't believe her, couldn't calculate the ramifications, or didn't know what to do themselves. And these are real cruisers who managed to make it to serious Mexico not "just" Ensenada.

Crowded anchorages are my #2 least favorite thing. Bridges are #1.