Lantern as anchor light?

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Benz

I could say that flipping on a light in a remote anchorage where there's no chance of people plowing through is illogical as well. I show a light wherever there's need, but in a corner of Quirpon, in a cove off the little Regullet, or at La Falaise, it's a waste of battery.
If you have never cruised where there are nefarious people, I congratulate you. If you leave the safe confines of you home waters--which I might not, if could cruise Newfoundland always--you might find yourself in areas where the less attention your boat draws, the better. I was boarded and burgled in Nicaragua--there were no options of where to anchor, and the only way to avoid would have been to skip the country altogether. But then that's one of the dangers of visiting faraway places.
And so, instead of making a hard and fast unbreakable rule, I exercise prudence in when and where to show a light. So far, having one on did not prevent a collision, but not having one on has never resulted in being hit.

Benz, You're on the losing side of this argument. You can carry on stubbornly maintaining that you are right, and it's your right to not show a light when you are not legally required to, but your arguments are specious. There is no place where there is no chance of someone coming along. In fact in those remote places where no cruising yacht is seen, the local going through is not going to be looking for you to be there anyhow, so no, that's one place you need a light.

As for your fear of nefarious people, so you want to hide yourself...Don't be stupid; they saw you during the day, didn't they? I've anchored Nicaragua, I used my anchor light. I've anchored in Papua New Guinea, The Solomons, and other places. A little dangerous to be there, but I showed my light at night (and I flew my flag, too).

[StuM]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

You , Sir, are taking pedantry to a whole new level.........

And you sir, are drawing a very long bow when you extrapolate the stated "steaming light" to be an "all-round white light".

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

You , Sir, are taking pedantry to a whole new level.........

No, he's just not accepting "sort of" as OK.

[RaymondR]

Navigation lights are designed to pass information on the state of motion of a vessel. They do this via their colour, arcs of visibility, relative levels and a combination of same.

A good bit of pedantry in relation to their implementation is a requirement.

[Benz]

Originally Posted by StuM

"not supposed to" is very different to "shall not be required to" (which is what the US rule says).

If you were "not supposed to", the rule would say "should not".


It IS required by COLREGs. It's not required by US Rules in some designated locations in the US.





Please tell us one place where you go and there's "absolutely no chance of anyone passing by". If you have got there, there's always a chance that someone else will as well.

Stu, you moved my quotation marks to change the meaning. But I will clarify. Simi said I should use lights "like you're supposed to," but the point is, the rules do not require it. There is a reason they do not require it: it is because often barges are anchored there untended for long periods, and expecting a light on them would be unreasonable. Therefore, anyone entering one such anchorage (of which there are not a few in the OP's home waters (remember the OP?) needs to assume that there are unlit obstructions, even if only an unlit enormous mooring float.
So then, anyone entering any such anchorage ignorantly expecting every floating object to be lit up is a fool, and anything he hits is his fault, and the Coast Guard will tell him as much.
I will not scoff at anyone who chooses to show a light, but this claim that one is supposed to is not accurate.
As far as anchorages where there's no chance of being passed by: dear me, what about at the head of every long skinny bay where there's nothing beyond to pass to? What about places, like the San Blas archipelago, where no one moves at night, or those islands where cruisers don't frequent and require good daylight to enter? The people there only move by dugout canoe--I'll risk a hit from one of those.
What about Puerto Escondido, where none of the native craft are lit? Have you seriously never been anyplace where speedboats don't roar past all night?
I'm careful to always show a light in places where I think someone will be passing with the legal expectation of seeing a light, or where I deem that it's prudent for collision avoidance. But oftener than not I'm far from either of that sort of spots.

[Benz]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

I believe that it is only in "special anchorages" that the lighting is not required. There are lots of "designated" anchorages that do not qualify as "special"anchorages, and hence anchor ilghts are still required nearly everywhere one is likely to drop a hook.

I've been cruising and anchoring for the last 34 years now, and have yet to be in a "special" anchorage. They are rare beasts in the USA and extinct elsewhere.

And the anchorage where you are "absolutely sure that no one else will be passing by" is rarer yet. Perhaps Unicorn Bay qualifies...

Defending your unseamanlike practice is not a good look IMO, but carry on if you must. I hope that your bad example does not corrupt the many newbies that follow these pages.

Jim

Should not the newbies, especially ones like the OP who will cruise where there are special anchorages, be told frankly that there are places where they should not expect to see every obstruction lit up? I mentioned the unlit moored barges in my last post. Will he not be safer if he knows that entering such places requires extra precautions? Will he not be safer if he knows that there are unlit boats in mooring fields? Jim, you and the others are setting him up for disaster with your attitudes, and I only hope he listens to the voice of prudence until he learns to have good judgment for himself.

[noelex 77]

Not displaying adequate anchor lighting is inconsiderate even if technically it may be legal in some circumstances.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Benz

Should not the newbies, especially ones like the OP who will cruise where there are special anchorages, be told frankly that there are places where they should not expect to see every obstruction lit up? I mentioned the unlit moored barges in my last post. Will he not be safer if he knows that entering such places requires extra precautions? Will he not be safer if he knows that there are unlit boats in mooring fields? Jim, you and the others are setting him up for disaster with your attitudes, and I only hope he listens to the voice of prudence until he learns to have good judgment for himself.

Ben, do you not see the difference between being aware that not all obstructions are lit and being lit yourself? Certainly one should be aware of those barges, but one should not add to the hazard by being unlit.

You are still advocating very unseamanlike behavior that also abrogates colregs.

Jim

[Mike OReilly]

Humans have an amazing capacity to justify their own actions, even in the face of obvious error.

[Benz]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Ben, do you not see the difference between being aware that not all obstructions are lit and being lit yourself? Certainly one should be aware of those barges, but one should not add to the hazard by being unlit.

You are still advocating very unseamanlike behavior that also abrogates colregs.

Jim

Your opinion on what is unseamanlike is your own--we've differed on lots of details in the past, and it only goes to show that there's more than one way to skin a cat. But to say that I should show a light where the Coast Guard says that I do not need so to do is coming it a bit high. Am I a jerk if I don't show a light on my boat while at it's mooring, even though neither the harbormaster or the coast guard require me to show one? Ought I to go out there every night and make sure it's on just in case some unseamanlike fathead wants to wend up the narrow channel in the dark (past all the unlit buoys and all the other moored boats) and anchor on top of my mooring? This is about common sense, Jim: not selfishness; not lazyness; not unseamanliness. You and @MikeOReilly have latched onto this issue like a terrier to a bone, and are heading further down the path of the unreasonably self-righteous. Neither my experience nor the law agree with your opinion. Perhaps you should leave it there.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by Benz

Stu, you moved my quotation marks to change the meaning. But I will clarify. Simi said I should use lights "like you're supposed to," but the point is, the rules do not require it. .

I did say that "may" be reasoning for your "special" mooring field but it is not for areas you claim no on goes to so no need for one.

There is a reason they do not require it: it is because often barges are anchored there untended for long periods, and expecting a light on them would be unreasonable.

How so?
Battery and solar, perhaps you have heard of these things?

As far as anchorages where there's no chance of being passed by: dear me, what about at the head of every long skinny bay where there's nothing beyond to pass to?

What about the catamaran or tri who draws less than you and anchors in closer?
Before our current vessel we had one and always anchored in closer to the beach.

What about places, like the San Blas archipelago, where no one moves at night, or those islands where cruisers don't frequent and require good daylight to enter?

How do you know no one moves at night?
Unexpected change of weather can have people moving is one example.
Late arrivals is another.
We have been in places where we never expected to see another boat yet in the morning have one anchored nearby, inside coral lagoons with unmarked entrances, in creek systems with barred entrances, you don't know what others people movements are,

[RaymondR]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Ben, do you not see the difference between being aware that not all obstructions are lit and being lit yourself? Certainly one should be aware of those barges, but one should not add to the hazard by being unlit.

You are still advocating very unseamanlike behavior that also abrogates colregs.

Jim

Yep, anyone who enters any anchorage or a creek or river expecting everything to be effectively lit is an incurable optimist and anyone who goes to bunk without an anchor light must consider themselves to have a sublimal death wish.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

Yep, anyone who enters any anchorage or a creek or river expecting everything to be effectively lit is an incurable optimist and anyone who goes to bunk without an anchor light must consider themselves to have a sublimal death wish.

I might spin it differently, but yup, that rather sums up the last few pages.

[Jim Cate]

Neither my experience nor the law agree with your opinion.

One last time: the law says that you should display an anchor light EXCEPT when in a special anchorage. Special anchorages exist in only a few places in the USA and, as far as I am aware, nowhere else in the world. They comprise an infinitesimal fraction of the worlds anchorages. To use them as a model for behavior in general is wrong.

I'm curious: what are your opinions about displaying the anchoring day shape? Do you do that as a general practice?

Jim

[Benz]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

One last time: the law says that you should display an anchor light EXCEPT when in a special anchorage. Special anchorages exist in only a few places in the USA and, as far as I am aware, nowhere else in the world. They comprise an infinitesimal fraction of the worlds anchorages. To use them as a model for behavior in general is wrong.

I'm curious: what are your opinions about displaying the anchoring day shape? Do you do that as a general practice?

Jim

If I was someplace that the authorities cared, I probably would display a day shape, but haven't been anywhere that that's an issue, and have only rarely seen anyone display one. Do you? Do you show a motoring day shape as well? This thread might be drifting, but I am curious now how diehard COLREGS enthusiasts behave in these more obscure matters.
As for the rest of the world and COLREGS: If I'm hanging off the lee of the Azuero Peninsula overnight, where no fishing boats ever pass; no cruisers would ever get close unless they were also going to anchor, in which case they would be exercising extreme caution, and there are no authorities to grieve, does it matter if I don't show a light? What about the Punta Sal Lagoon in Honduras, where anyone who enters after dark either has cat's eyes or night-vision goggles? You see, I'm not out to be a jerk--I just don't see the necessity of ALWAYS showing a light NO MATTER WHAT. I have cruised in so many places where it simply doesn't do a thing--it'd be like wearing a life jacket in your bunk: sure, you're on a boat, but the chances of taking a swim down there are pretty slim.