Lack of Power to Windlass?

[Emerald Sea]

Originally Posted by Seman

Hello Steve,
If you have a DC Amp Clamp meter, or if you can borrow one, many cruisers have them, check the Amps at the battery when the winch is running, or suppose to run. I you get over 100 A with no or min. load on the winch, you might have a short in your circuit. If this is the case, disconnect the - (Ground) wire at the winch motor & try again.
Let us know what u find.
Cheers & good luck.

Hi Seman. I put my DC Amp clamp around the + cable feeding the solenoid. The highest reading is approx 3.4A when the windlass is engaged.

I will try the disconnect when Im back at the boat.
Thanks

[Seman]

Steve, is that the 12mm red or black wire, 3.4 Amp, you are referring to?
This is way too low, almost an open circuit. Make sure you check the heavy 12mm wires, not the small ones. Please check all the wires on your motor as well with the clamp Amp meter when running.
By the way, Walter from Baan Mai here. Hope I can help.

[DeepFrz]

It certainly sounds like it is either the motor or the gear box.

[DeepFrz]

The voltage at the motor when engaged should be somewhere around 10 - 11 volts.

Edit: the low voltage could also be bad connection or cable but because it blows the cct. breaker I would bet on it being in the motor or possibly the gear box.

[DeepFrz]

If you could post a wiring diagram that might help. Its confusing that you say you only are drawing 3.4 amps at the input to the solenoid box but yet you are tripping the cct. breaker. Maybe you have a bad breaker and need to try bypassing that for only a very short test.

What happens if you try running the windlass with the chain removed from the gypsy?

[Emerald Sea]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

It certainly sounds like it is either the motor or the gear box.

Yes, Im coming around to this realization too. I'll take the motor off today and also check the gears. Ill likely take it to a repair shop in Papeete tomorrow. Or buy a new Lofrans X3 that seem to be available here. At the moment we are stuck to the seabed and can't lift the chain as the Quick retaining ring that is used to recover the anchor manually stripped out (cheap plastic) after 15m. I still have a smile!

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

What happens if you try running the windlass with the chain removed from the gypsy?

Its the same, extremely slow in either direction. At the moment there is no load on the windlass as we are on a bridle.

I have a wiring diagram but will have to scan it back at the boat. And I will reconfirm the DC Amps on the positive cable to the solenoid box.

[Wotname]

FWIW
DeepFrz is correct in his assessment IMO.

[Boatwright]

Looking again at your reported voltages, I'm thinking you have a bad connection in the wiring. Don't assume a wire or its terminals are OK until you actually take it apart, clean it and test it again. Ground wires and their connections are notorious for hidden high resistance, and don't rule out anything because it's "new".

[mitiempo]

Originally Posted by Boatwright

Looking again at your reported voltages, I'm thinking you have a bad connection in the wiring. Don't assume a wire or its terminals are OK until you actually take it apart, clean it and test it again. Ground wires and their connections are notorious for hidden high resistance, and don't rule out anything because it's "new".

I agree. I would bypass every item. Take a charged battery. Connect ground from this battery to the windlass directly. Touch the positive wire to the windlass positive connection for up and then down. If the windlass runs the way it should you have a bad connection somewhere.

Voltage will tell you very little by itself. If one strand of 2/0 is connected the voltage will look good. Currant to power the windlass will not flow though.

[donradcliffe]

Look at the wiring diagram for your windlass in http://www.quicknauticalequipment.co...B%20Rev01A.pdf

The diagram shows blue, black and brown wires in the control circuit. These are control wires and will be relatively small in diameter.

The diagram shows heavy cables going from the battery to the circuit breaker to the relay and to the motor labeled L1 through L4. The color of these cables is up to the installer, as they are not furnished with the windlass. Normal practice would be to make L4 black, as it is the ground, and L1 and L2 red, as the are the positive 12v side.
The two L3 cables could be any color. Its the voltage and current for these heavy cables we are interested in. Note that there are two cables L3--one is for the up side of the windlass motor and one is for the down side. Note that the diagram shows two
black wires coming from the negative battery terminal--a heavy one directly to the motor and a small one going to the center control terminal of the relay. Do not rely on the small one as your 'ground' reference--if you want to measure between a positive and ground, the negative side of your voltmeter should be connected to the negative battery terminal.

When the engine is running and the circuit breaker is engaged, you should read 13+ volts between ground and the L2 connection at the relay. That voltage should drop some when you run the windlass--about 0.5 to 1.5 volts, depending on how good the cables are. If it only drops 0.1 volts, it would tell me that the motor isn't getting any amps. If you put your clamp on ammeter around L2, it should read 50-100 amps or so for your 1700 watt windlass when it is running. If it reads over 150, you may have a short or a gearbox problem.

One of the two L3 cables should read about 10-12v to ground when the windlass is running, and the other one should read zero--one is for up, the other for down. If the L4 cable is working, the voltage between L4 and the hot L3 at the motor should also be 10-12 v. If you measured 5 volts between one L3 and the black L4 and 8 volts on the other side, it tells me you probably have a problem with the L4 ground cable. You can confirm it by measuring volts between 'ground' and the L4 terminal at the motor. If that reads 5 volts when the windlass is running, you need to fix the ground cable. BTW, if you clamp the ammeter on the L4 cable anywhere, it should also read 50-100 amps when the windlass is running. If your L3-L4 voltage was over 10v and you only see 5 amps, the problem is inside the motor.

Good luck! The burning smell is not a good sign. Its also possible to murder the motor by energizing both L3 wires at once--most good relay boxes do not permit this, but do I trust the Italians??

[double u]

"do I trust the Italians??"
yeah, the ferraris lost against the mercedes yesterday in F1!
I visited the Quick factory & was very much impressed with the orderliness & care at production! would stand every kraut or austrian factory in good stead!

[yachtgemini]

It sounds very likely the problem is in the motor side. I would simply pull it out and wander ashore and find an auto electrician and let them check the motor over. The great thing about being in a second world country is that they still know how to fix things.

Many of these anchor windlass motor designs and components started life as car starter motors. Our windlass is on its second motor, the first was a modified landrover starter motor and the second was an Italian OEM generic motor that still had the same form factor. Bottom line is that an auto electrician will be very familiar with the motor.

R

[noelex 77]

As others have suggested, I think the problem is most likely to be a defective anchor winch or gearbox, but personally I would want to categorically rule out a simple electrical problem before removing the motor and gearbox.

Low voltage and low current at the motor terminals as you have recorded is pathognomonic of an electrical, not a mechanical problem. On the other hand, the tripping of the circuit breaker suggests there is high current which is strongly suggestive of a mechanical problem.

The key to diagnosing the likely problem is the current reading. I suspect your ammeter reading is wrong. The current is actually high and the problem is mechanical. A simple test to confirm the current is to look at the voltage at the windlass and also directly at the battery.

Assuming the battery health is OK, a very low voltage at the windlass while it is running (like the 4 to 8 volts you are recording) combined with a lowish voltage measured directly at the battery while the windlass and engine are running (say 10V or lower) means there is a very high current, which strongly suggests a mechanical problem with the windlass.

On the other hand, a very low voltage at the windlass while it running (like the 4 to 8 volts you are recording) combined with a normal voltage measured directly at the battery while the windlass and engine are running (say 13V or higher ) means there is a low current which strongly suggests a simple electrical problem.

I think this test will decide if it is a mechanical or an electrical problem.

[atoll]

hi steve
we had a similar problem to yours on a nearly new yacht after bashing to windward up the red sea.

turned out that the brush holders had compleatly corroded inside the casing.
the design fault was the alignment notches for the aluminium brush holder casing on the back end of the motor allowed a tiny amount of salt water to enter causing electrolysis inside.
the motor/windlass was less than 18 months old!

this was a lewmar,but looks very similar to your dh 1700 under deck model,untill we dismantled the armature/motor body their was no outward sign of any problem.

we had to replace the complete gearbox/motor assembly.

[atoll]

looked something like this,only much worse,brush holders had detached! (image from google)