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Old 15-04-2015, 15:41   #1
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jumping windlass

We recently purchased a 2003 Outremer 45 .itis fitted with a lofrans tigress windlass and all chain rode. When anchoring sometimes if the wind catches the bow when there is a bit of slack in the chain the chain will jump out of the gypsy and after a few feet sit properly again .
My question is ,is this normal I don't think that it is but I never owned a windlass before.
To me the answer is either wrong chain or worn gypsy
David
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Old 15-04-2015, 15:49   #2
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Re: jumping windlass

I don't know about normal, but common with horizontal windlasses for some reason. Once I went to vertical I didn't have that issue... go figure. I always thought it was chain piling against the striper and pushing the chain back... not sure.
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Old 15-04-2015, 16:42   #3
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Re: jumping windlass

This not good thing to let go.
This was happening on my brothers boat and one day while paying out chain, it continued to jump until it finally jumped of the gypsy. The only thing that kept 300 feet of chain from reaching the bottom of the ocean was that it was coming through the deck so fast it it created a knot below the deck and could get through the hawse pipe.
I was surprised with the speed the chain was leaving the boat, it didn't rip a hole through the deck when it stopped.

After a new gypsy the problem was less but not eliminated. After more analysis we determined that there was not enough contact between the chain and the gypsy. The angle from the chain coming through the deck, around the gypsy and out to the roller on the bowsprit was less than 90 degrees of contact.

We fabricated an idler pulley that the chain went around after leaving the gypsy that gave about 135 degrees of contact. It never jumped again.
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Old 15-04-2015, 17:08   #4
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Re: jumping windlass

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Originally Posted by Wind River View Post
This not good thing to let go.

After a new gypsy the problem was less but not eliminated. After more analysis we determined that there was not enough contact between the chain and the gypsy. The angle from the chain coming through the deck, around the gypsy and out to the roller on the bowsprit was less than 90 degrees of contact.

We fabricated an idler pulley that the chain went around after leaving the gypsy that gave about 135 degrees of contact. It never jumped again.
Good idea but another alternative would have been to move the windlass farther back with a lead-in into the hawse pipe, allowing the chain to wrap more. Or move the hawse pipe forward with a U in the pipe. With all chain there should be enough drop inside the chain locker to free fall the chain (gravity).
A couple good lunges on the chain while at anchor looks like it could snap the idler right off, unless you put a snubber forward of the iderler.
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Old 15-04-2015, 17:16   #5
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Re: jumping windlass

Yeah, horizontals contact very little in the gypsy. That's the nice thing about verticals... ~180 degree wrap..
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Old 15-04-2015, 17:46   #6
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Re: jumping windlass

You say when anchoring. Do you mean just when you are setting the anchor? No weight should be on the windlass really. Drop the anchor and try drift back as the chain is layed out, hook on the bridle, let out enough chain to make a decent loop between the roller and hook (10m) slowly reverse adding power on both engins to 2500RPM for a minute to set the anchor. Motor foreward when weighing anchor to take the load off the windlass if theres any wind or current.
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Old 15-04-2015, 17:48   #7
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Re: jumping windlass

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Originally Posted by delmarrey View Post
Good idea but another alternative would have been to move the windlass farther back with a lead-in into the hawse pipe, allowing the chain to wrap more. Or move the hawse pipe forward with a U in the pipe. With all chain there should be enough drop inside the chain locker to free fall the chain (gravity).
A couple good lunges on the chain while at anchor looks like it could snap the idler right off, unless you put a snubber forward of the iderler.
I don't think that idler is coming off. What I used to build it is a sealed wheel hub assembly from a Jeep and its mounted on 3/8 thick plate welded and gusseted to a 3/8 plate sandwiched between the windlass and bowsprit and lagged to the bowsprit. It was supposed to be an experiment just to see if it solved the problem but ended up being permanent.

You are correct though about moving the windlass back. This is what was done on my boat (same type, Hudson Force 50) but it would require cutting the Sampson posts off. Just moving it back would also have lowered the gypsy in relation to the bow roller possibly giving enough contact on the gypsy also. I don't have the chain jumping problem with my windlass.

This is what mine looks like for comparison. You can see how the Sampson posts were cut flush with the bowsprit. Likely this was done in the original build:
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Old 15-04-2015, 17:56   #8
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Re: jumping windlass

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Originally Posted by monte View Post
You say when anchoring. Do you mean just when you are setting the anchor? No weight should be on the windlass really. Drop the anchor and try drift back as the chain is layed out, hook on the bridle, let out enough chain to make a decent loop between the roller and hook (10m) slowly reverse adding power on both engins to 2500RPM for a minute to set the anchor. Motor foreward when weighing anchor to take the load off the windlass if theres any wind or current.
You made me read the original post again. I believe you are right, his appears to be jumping after he is anchored and should have a bridle taking the load off the windlass.

My scenario was a jumping chain while lowering or retrieving the anchor. Never had the problem after anchoring as we always used a bridle.
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Old 16-04-2015, 00:20   #9
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Re: jumping windlass

If you use a chain hook spliced to heavy line to take the strain of the anchor, then in wind surges there is a spring effect. Instead of getting a hard bang, the line stretches a little and softens the effect of pulling the chain tight. Also in open anchorages, a longer rode, especially in all chain, will soften the blow.
Normally the end of the anchor chain or cable is fastened to the keel.
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Old 16-04-2015, 13:13   #10
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Re: jumping windlass

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wind River View Post
You made me read the original post again. I believe you are right, his appears to be jumping after he is anchored and should have a bridle taking the load off the windlass.

My scenario was a jumping chain while lowering or retrieving the anchor. Never had the problem after anchoring as we always used a bridle.
Thanks for all the response ,just for clarification the jumping happens during the process of anchoring not after . I use a bridle and a chain hook and snubber so after the hook is set no load is on the windlass .
I sail a catamaran in the Caribbean in the winter so the wind in the anchorage can be puffy and you do not always have perfect control of the bows . I am not talking "hey did you see that guy come in " scenarios just the bows falling to one side or the other . It is a vertical windlass and as long as there is know sharp load applied it seems fine .I will check how many degrees of contact I have .
David
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Old 16-04-2015, 13:33   #11
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Re: jumping windlass

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Originally Posted by admiralslater View Post
Thanks for all the response ,just for clarification the jumping happens during the process of anchoring not after . I use a bridle and a chain hook and snubber so after the hook is set no load is on the windlass .
I sail a catamaran in the Caribbean in the winter so the wind in the anchorage can be puffy and you do not always have perfect control of the bows . I am not talking "hey did you see that guy come in " scenarios just the bows falling to one side or the other . It is a vertical windlass and as long as there is know sharp load applied it seems fine .I will check how many degrees of contact I have .
David
The Lofrans Tigres you mentioned in post 1 is a horizontal windlass.....
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Old 16-04-2015, 13:56   #12
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Re: jumping windlass

You probably just need to organise a better lead in for the chain coming from the chain locker onto the windlass. It's pretty common in cats for there to not be much depth in the chain locker, so the chain may not be feeding from directly below the gypsy.
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Old 16-04-2015, 16:09   #13
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Re: jumping windlass

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Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
The Lofrans Tigres you mentioned in post 1 is a horizontal windlass.....
I will check, does vertical refer to th orientation of the drum or the chain. The pictures in the earlier post I would call vertical
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Old 16-04-2015, 16:27   #14
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Re: jumping windlass

Tigress is horizontal. For what it is worth, I have never had a similar problem. Must be the lead, wrong chain size, or worn gypsy. It should never happen.
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Old 16-04-2015, 16:34   #15
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Re: jumping windlass

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Originally Posted by admiralslater View Post
I will check, does vertical refer to th orientation of the drum or the chain. The pictures in the earlier post I would call vertical
It's the orientation of the spindle of the gypsy. ie. The first photo in this thread is of a horizontal windlass.
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