Is the 'kedge' obsolete?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

As a paid up member of the BIB brigade I still think a kedge anchor is essential.

A Fortress is ideal.

There are situations where a second anchor is necessary.
Such as
Aligning the boat with the swell
Running aground
A stern anchor
Reducing swing
Loaning to those boats that have inadequate main anchors
Etc etc

My concern over the use of two anchors relates to those cruisers that use two anchors to make up for the inadequate holding of their main anchor, especially when this is used on a regular basis.
I think a single adequate anchor that will hold the boat in all, or least the vast majority of expected conditions, is a better solution.

The kedge serves a very different purpose to second main anchor and I suspect most members of the BIB camp would encourage having such an anchor available.

+1

Key concept -- it serves a different purpose from the main anchor. Don't leave home without it!

[sww914]

We helped to rescue a boat up on the rocks last week. My wife's first questions were "Is anybody hurt? Are you taking on water?" and mine was "Did you set a kedge anchor?" He said "What's that?"
Stern anchor? Yes, we set a stern anchor all the time if we're staying for more than a day.

[Kettlewell]

A second anchor also increases your chance of a boat dragging into you.

I suppose anything is possible, but I don't think any boat that has ever dragged into me has ever caught on my anchor rode, whether one or two. I have been hit pretty hard when others were dragging and it wasn't because I was on two anchors, but it didn't have anything to do with the rodes--he hit me in my stern of all places as he was sailing wildly after his anchor pulled free. Classic case of needing two anchors--very shallow and very tight anchorage, middle of the night Bahamas thundersquall. He pulled his main anchor on too short a scope, while I was fine because using two anchors I could have them on long scope and still be in a good location.

[msponer]

Lin Pardey's story on the mass grounding in Cabo had an interesting anecdote -- the stern anchor on one of the boats caught and pointed it's bow into the beach as it ran aground, and those folks believed that bow first is a better way to run aground.

What do you guys think of that? That if you are DOOMED, you could do worse than throw a danforth off the stern and try to go in slowly, and bow first? Or is this a bit like trying to put on your seatbelt in the last seconds of a crash?

I also thought it was interesting, from her story, that Joshua was so much harder to recover because she was laying with her deck towards the surf. So every day they would try to dig all of the sand out of her, and then the tide would rise and fill her with sand again. That laying with the keel and hull towards the surf is better, if you have any hope of controlling that.

[Kenomac]

A kedge anchor is essential equipment for anyone who plans to spend time at anchor or cruising. Although it's rarely used, that doesn't negate it's usefulness during unexpected circumstances.

Just the other day, we were anchoring in a very protected cove with 15 knot winds pushing us towards shore.... usually, no big deal. Suddenly, with only our first thirty feet of chain rode deployed, the chain became jammed in the windlass. It took us 15 minutes to sort out the mess while we drifted about in the wind with our anchor dragging... what if the engine had quit?? Our Fortress 55 kedge anchor was waiting there on the stern all the while to deploy as a last resort. Maybe it's just the Boy Scout motto "be prepared" that was drummed into me as a youth.,, but we were ready.

Why did our chain jam in the windlass? A small plastic bag with a switch in it I'd forgotten about was on the anchor locker floor had became caught up in the chain as it deployed and got sucked up into the underside of the windlass under pressure. The windlass was stuck, couldn't go up or down... jammed. Stuff happens.

[zeehag]

i dont set a second anchor, but kedging off a grounding is a good skill to know and prepare for. have done it a few times, not my boat--others who are grounded too hard..or in a storm in sd near coronado ......

is only obsolete in the minds of those who consider them obsolete.

[Andrew Troup]

Thanks guys for bringing it back on topic so quickly. Nice teamwork!

Noelex's list was much like the first part of mine.

Kenomac's story was exactly the sort of actual situation report I was hoping to tease out of this vastly experienced community.

I had jotted down a few 'questions to self' after that, some of which have been covered, but here are some I haven't spotted above:

How would a boat without a kedge get off a leeward dock when the engine cannot be used (tsunami warning, good sailing breeze, engine in bits) ?

How would a boat without a kedge (and without thrusters or twin screws) get off a leeward dock when boxed in by big beamy unattended trawlers close ahead and astern?

What would a boat without a kedge use as a temporary handbrake in light winds over foul ground (say after an unscheduled engine shutdown in an ancient mooring basin with bottom chains everywhere) ?

What would a boat without a kedge use to anchor in very deep water in a calm when it was necessary to wait for a tide change?

What would a boat without a kedge use for box-hauling (which generally involves abandoning the anchor, at least temporarily) ?

How would a boat without a kedge place or retrieve an anchor in a location the mother ship could not safely reach - people who are implacably wedded (welded) to "One Anchor (at a time)" will not find this notion comprehensible....

[Andrew Troup]

Originally Posted by msponer

....

What do you guys think of that? That if you are DOOMED, you could do worse than throw a danforth off the stern and try to go in slowly, and bow first? Or is this a bit like trying to put on your seatbelt in the last seconds of a crash?

.....

Particularly for a lift-keel boat I would be inclined to tow something to try to keep the boat end-on to the waves, possibly saving the rig if the surf is high (probably a Delta or a Bruce rather than a Danforth, which tend to skip along if you tow them at any speed)
If the rudder(s) were retractable I'd probably try and go in stern first, with the anchor off the bow. Not so much for salvage (arguably it would float earlier the other way round) but because it seems to me there would be less tossing up of the bow than the stern due to the incoming waves, hence more chance of the anchor not popping out completely.

Given that it is a plough, which might behave more smoothly than some when intentionally dragged: a Delta or copy, either smallish or at short scope, might work best. Seems to me you want to minimise the time in the surf to reduce the statistical probability of a really big one coming through when you're in the critical depth zone: If too little drag, I'd pay out more scope.

Hard to do this the other way round... like impossible, I'd guess....

When you initially pay it out, you could 'surge' it around a big strong winch drum or big bollard if there's one in a suitable location, so that it has enough load but not too much speed to set. If you tow the anchor off one quarter, it might bias you enough to help ground the keel fairly hard, then cast off the line so the boat falls towards the beach.

Frankly I don't think this would be possible 9/10 times - especially with a deep keel, as that probably means you'll be grounding out where the big surf is breaking.

In any case, it might be a case of trying too hard: Seems likely a deep keeler would naturally tend to go sideways in the terminal stages, and tilt landwards. Not sure why the Joshua did the opposite - but not, from memory, a deep keeler...

I'm flat-out theorising here, I have not tried anything resembling this in practice, and have no burning ambition to do so....

[Andrew Troup]

Came across an earlier thread with some good stories:

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ons-55379.html

[bobconnie]

I can tell ya a Danforth off the stern will stop ya in your tracks! if the bottoms sticky enough for it to bite ! Ive had to do it twice to keep my boat from being run down by BAB (bigass boats) once in the Columbia river. once over the bar in Coos Bay Or. you youngsters really don't know the stopping power of a Danforth in a good sticky bottom! In fact, if I have to use an anchor in a big blow I will use a Danforth if it's big enough! I used a 80 lb Danforth on a 42 ft steel boat for years and except for a complete reversal of wind and tide I never had any problems with staying put ! Again I like to either use a stern anchor or a line to shore with either a rock or a tree or a Kedge anchor buried on the beach ! But then Im old fashion and won't spend money trying new things when I have stuff that works just fine !!

[Snowpetrel]

Originally Posted by Andrew Troup

In any case, it might be a case of trying too hard: Seems likely a deep keeler would naturally tend to go sideways in the terminal stages, and tilt landwards. Not sure why the Joshua did the opposite - but not, from memory, a deep keeler...

I'm flat-out theorising here, I have not tried anything resembling this in practice, and have no burning ambition to do so....

From memory Cabo San Lucas is quite steep to, it might explain why the BCC managed to dig herself a nice trench with her bow. Joshua landed on another boat, this and the steep to nature might be why she ended up leaning to seaward.

having used two anchors many times and three anchors more than a few I have no big problem with them tangling. If you got to go in a hurry, cut the extras anchors away (just watch the prop). If a boat drags down and hooks on yours cast it loose and sit on the other two, away from the dragging boat. If the wind shifts either adjust them or let the weakest one drag down until they equalize. This all works best on a smaller boat, maybe 40 foot is a rough place where second and third anchors start to get unwieldy?

Saying this normally I just sit on one decent sized anchor. And I avoid cruising in places that have lots of other boats...

[Andrew Troup]

Originally Posted by Snowpetrel

From memory Cabo San Lucas is quite steep to, it might explain why the BCC managed to dig herself a nice trench with her bow. Joshua landed on another boat, this and the steep to nature might be why she ended up leaning to seaward.

Thanks for that, I'd forgotten all the details, but they're seeping back! I met a French sailor once who had several claims to fame, one of which was that he'd pinched Joshua (yes, that Joshua) from the maritime museum at La Rochelle to use it for his qualifying solo sail for the OSTAR (transatlantic solo) race. Interesting guy.

He didn't even tell me that story ... the conversation was mainly about places he'd been recently, including a number of interesting French subantarctic islands, on the boat he was on when I visited him. Which itself was very interesting: rotating wing mast, on an aluminium expedition boat, and twin dagger keels, side by side !!!

I was thinking of him when I mentioned that your 'keel anchor' idea had already been tried - he often used to sail into small coves and use the keels like temporary pushpins into the mud to immobilise the boat while he set up shore lines. Ideal for the solo sailor in tricky places....

He also went to the Peninsula, per the photo, but not solo... I remember when I first encountered the name, thinking "Sally Cove" might be a modern name, after the Sally we both know. However it turns out to have been called that because that's where sledging parties would "Sally forth"

Originally Posted by Snowpetrel

If a boat drags down and hooks on yours cast it loose and sit on the other two, away from the dragging boat. If the wind shifts either adjust them or let the weakest one drag down until they equalize.

Zackly... not rocket science.

I even heard tell of someone who, rather than casting it loose, profited from a lull to pass the bitter end of their third anchor rode to the dragging boat and suggested they bend on some more scope, lay their remaining spare anchor further abeam, and hang back on the new pair...

Originally Posted by Snowpetrel

This all works best on a smaller boat, maybe 40 foot is a rough place where second and third anchors start to get unwieldy? .

I was thinking EXACTLY that just the other day...

Originally Posted by Snowpetrel

Saying this normally I just sit on one decent sized anchor. And I avoid cruising in places that have lots of other boats...

What IS it about pack ice and katabatics, that seems to put people off?

[Talbot]

If you ever sail in Norwegian waters you will find that just about every boat is set up with a kedge at the stern, and that these are used a lot. Some have a significant amout of chain, and an electric windlas set up for it - but I would suspect that they are just mooring by the stern .

[zeehag]

is difficult to get off the golf course once grounded and the tide takes you closer to the green every wave--lol...is a kedge to be used--one of the few things danforth anchors are good for.....greens cleaning and sand bar extrication without the extra 250 dollars per foot salvage fees... do it your self and save. is all part of sailing and seamanship.

[Dockhead]

As several others have mentioned, whether or not you use two anchors at the same time for whatever purpose, whether or not you would ever use a kedge to "kedge off" of a grounding situation, you really, really will want to have an anchor somewhere close to hand, ready to deploy with rode attached, something light enough to handle yourself without a windlass, in case of emergency.

Imagine your engine dies and you're being blown or swept towards a rocky shore, for some reason you can't get sail up in time, or you're embayed and couldn't sail out anyway, or for whatever reason you just have to stop now and get control of the boat. Most electric windlasses won't operate unless the engine is running (this is idiotic; I keep meaning to rewire mine so it will), and with many of them it's not that easy even to drop the anchor without power. And what if the windlass jams, as in someone's example above?

I take great comfort from knowing that big Fortress is right there in my anchor locker ready to go -- in case the carp hits the fan, I can throw it over the side in a few seconds, without relying on any mechanical devices at all, just with my bare hands.

The Fortress' setting behavior is also perfect for this use -- it almost always just bites right in without any need of backing down on it, quite unlike my bower anchor.

IMHO, it's an essential safety item.