Insufficient chain drop?

[workavoidance]

Hi there,

I'm getting problems with my chain jumping off my gypsy. It's calibrated chain, it's correctly matched to the gypsy, and the gypsy itself is in good condition. It doesn't jump when putting down the chain, only when pulling it up. It is 'solved' by applying a little pressure with your hand on the chain between the gypsy and the locker - rather like milking a cow!

It's for a stern anchor and was installed by the previous owner. My best guess is that there isn't sufficient drop between coming off the gypsy and the bottom of the bucket I use as an anchor locker (about 12in).

See the attached image.

I'm unsure how best to solve this and was hoping someone here would have a smart idea.

There isn't much room to lower the bucket. I could make a tube and send the chain toward the center of the boat, but again, it doesn't gain much drop and could reduce the weight on the back of the chain.

I had one idea about creating a 'hat' that sat around the gypsy, applying inward pressure on the chain to hold it in place, but I'm not sure if that would work.

Anyone?

[pjShap]

Not an inexpensive fix, but switching from galvanized chain to stainless solved my similar issue. Much lower friction so the chain spreads better with the inadequate fall height. Good stainless chain is expensive.

[workavoidance]

Originally Posted by pjShap

Not an inexpensive fix, but switching from galvanized chain to stainless solved my similar issue. Much lower friction so the chain spreads better with the inadequate fall height. Good stainless chain is expensive.

Hi! Thanks for the answer. Just to clarify as maybe it wasn't clear in my post, the problem exists even when all the chain is down and the bucket (shown in the photo) is empty. Admittedly it does get worse as the chain gets closer to the gypsy.

So I'm not sure that switching to stainless without also increasing the drop height after the gypsy will help?

Thanks

[PA1PDR]

If it was my boat, I would make a slide towards the center of the boat (assuming that bilge like pit is the center), keeping it clear of all the piping & tubing. First I would look to rationalise the piping and tubing of course. Slide would with 'guardrails' and it would end in a box that keeps the chain from getting into the wet bilge. Few meshed holes in it so the mud and water can freely enter the bilge.

[Tupaia]

There looks to be plenty of room above the windlass, can you access if from above? If so raise windlass up maybe. Strange anchor locker is this on a cat?


Ahh! it's a stern anchor! Ignore the above.

[GordMay]

With a vertical windlass, the anchor chain should make a 180 degree wrap, around the gypsy.
Does yours?
You might be able to increase the wrap, by moving the windlass forward [or aft].

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by workavoidance

Hi there,

I'm getting problems with my chain jumping off my gypsy. It's calibrated chain, it's correctly matched to the gypsy, and the gypsy itself is in good condition. It doesn't jump when putting down the chain, only when pulling it up. It is 'solved' by applying a little pressure with your hand on the chain between the gypsy and the locker - rather like milking a cow!

It's for a stern anchor and was installed by the previous owner. My best guess is that there isn't sufficient drop between coming off the gypsy and the bottom of the bucket I use as an anchor locker (about 12in).

See the attached image.

I'm unsure how best to solve this and was hoping someone here would have a smart idea.

There isn't much room to lower the bucket. I could make a tube and send the chain toward the center of the boat, but again, it doesn't gain much drop and could reduce the weight on the back of the chain.

I had one idea about creating a 'hat' that sat around the gypsy, applying inward pressure on the chain to hold it in place, but I'm not sure if that would work.

Anyone?

I'm sorry but this is obvious.


Read the manual. Pitch the bucket and let the chain fall lower, where it belongs. Yes, this will require a little building and moving a few things. But it is the correct solution. A bucket balanced on an under-thickness plywood shelf is not.


Always read the manual. It's not your fault it was a terrible installation, but you are the one that gets to fix it.


--


The other option is to abandon it. Although chain has benefits on the main rode, I has very few / none on a stern anchor and only makes everything more difficult. It was a mistake.


(Stern anchors operate very differently from the main rode. Swing is nearly zero so there is no cutting. The are often taken out with a dinghy, which sucks if it is chain. In this case, there seems to be no way to take the strain off the windlass, unless there is a snubber and cleat on deck. The only advantage would be breaking out the anchor and lifting., but stern anchors are typically lightweight... or should be.)

[SailingHarmonie]

Originally Posted by thinwater

I'm sorry but this is obvious.


Read the manual. Pitch the bucket and let the chain fall lower, where it belongs. Yes, this will require a little building and moving a few things. But it is the correct solution. A bucket balanced on an under-thickness plywood shelf is not.


Always read the manual. It's not your fault it was a terrible installation, but you are the one that gets to fix it.


--


The other option is to abandon it. Although chain has benefits on the main rode, I has very few / none on a stern anchor and only makes everything more difficult. It was a mistake.


(Stern anchors operate very differently from the main rode. Swing is nearly zero so there is no cutting. The are often taken out with a dinghy, which sucks if it is chain. In this case, there seems to be no way to take the strain off the windlass, unless there is a snubber and cleat on deck. The only advantage would be breaking out the anchor and lifting., but stern anchors are typically lightweight... or should be.)

Exactly like he said…. This arrangement does not work, and can not be made to work. If you tried some way of forcing the chain down on the gypsy, it will jam and that will be bad.

I don’t know where you sail, but for ALMOST all places I’d put a stern anchor really far down my project priorities. My boat has cruised for 25 years full time including two circumnavigations and never needed a stern anchor. In my old boat I used one twice in the Channel Islands in California. With a rope rode you can probably deal with the once a decade times you need one by hand.

[senormechanico]

I have but one thing to say.

If you don't follow any of the above gentle suggestions, above all else,

WATCH YOUR FINGERS WHEN YOU MILK IT !

[Tin Tin]

Remove the plywood and bucket, then try it and see if it works. If it works re-route/extend the hoses that may get damaged and build in a base or removable tray..

[workavoidance]

Thanks all for the suggestions.

For those of you who asked where I was cruising and suggested simplifying the stern anchor arrangement, I'll give a little more detail. I've sailed tens of thousands of miles and spent hundreds of nights on anchor (in a different boat), and my preferred solution in most situations is to swing on the bow anchor with only a chain and a snubber. I rarely used a stern anchor.

I now find myself living and weekend cruising in Norway (with this new to me 28ft boat). The most common method of anchoring here is a single stern anchor (normally bruce, typically all chain), putting the bow up against granite rocks and taking a line to a rock or tree. The previous owner installed this arrangement to simplify and improve the most common anchoring method here. To put it into perspective, until I replaced it, the bow anchor looked more like a dingy anchor! Swinging on a bow anchor is rare around here.

I will explore the solution many of you proposed, trying to get more drop and use the bilge's full depth at the stern. I'll need to work around some exhaust hoses and other stuff, but I guess it's the best/correct solution.

Thanks to you all for all the excellent feedback.

[Fuss]

Originally Posted by senormechanico

I have but one thing to say.

If you don't follow any of the above gentle suggestions, above all else,

WATCH YOUR FINGERS WHEN YOU MILK IT !

exactly, it’s only a matter of time before it gets you or someone!!

[Colin Stone]

Anchor too heavy for chain? I have the same issue - 70kg anchor on 10mm chain but with a 30kg anchor it doesn't jump.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by thinwater

I'm sorry but this is obvious.

Read the manual. Pitch the bucket and let the chain fall lower, where it belongs. Yes, this will require a little building and moving a few things. But it is the correct solution. A bucket balanced on an under-thickness plywood shelf is not.

Always read the manual. It's not your fault it was a terrible installation, but you are the one that gets to fix it.
--

The other option is to abandon it. Although chain has benefits on the main rode, I has very few / none on a stern anchor and only makes everything more difficult. It was a mistake.

(Stern anchors operate very differently from the main rode. Swing is nearly zero so there is no cutting. The are often taken out with a dinghy, which sucks if it is chain. In this case, there seems to be no way to take the strain off the windlass, unless there is a snubber and cleat on deck. The only advantage would be breaking out the anchor and lifting., but stern anchors are typically lightweight... or should be.)

Very good advice, with just one small quibble --


If the OP is using this for Baltic mooring with the bow tied to a quay or a rock, it is advantageous to have chain vs rope rode. Often you don't have much distance and so can't make much scope, and the chain can help a lot in getting the anchor to set.


This kind of arrangement is very common in the Baltic, just, this particular installation was botched, as Thinwater explained. He's right -- get rid of the bucket.

[Boatfreak]

I had a similar problem on my Cat. The anchor locker was shallow and the boat had had massively over specified 12mm chain from new. It didn't have enough distance to re-orient itself before hitting the bottom. I changed to undersized G7 8mm chain. Problem solved, but at the cost of chain and gypsy.