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Old 22-08-2011, 02:06   #16
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Re: I Returned my Rocna and Bought a Manson

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Originally Posted by Mithrandir View Post
I purchased a Rocna 33 kg in NZ last year. We replaced our CQR which had been a great anchor for many years but dragged twice during our trip to Tasmania. In my opinion its quite simply a better technology. There is no comparison. In addition we have no rust issues.
Cheers

It will also be a Chinese one.
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Old 22-08-2011, 14:34   #17
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Ours is definitely a Chinese one - it held in very heavy seas with shifting currents. We went up one size on that recommended for our vessel - we did not budge and my fears of all the negative comments about Rocna are no more!
We have put a swivel between the chain and anchor and we have a 12mm chain which is heavier than those of the leopards. It's a crap feeling sitting at anchor in a storm thinking about all that has been said on the forum - we expected and planned for the worst, monitored our position on the plotter all night in breaking seas and swung around plenty enough, but were bedded in really well. Lifted anchor the next morning expecting to see some form of damage - none at all. On the way back to Cape Point we anchored off Clifton and despite strong currents slept well and did not drag anchor at all. This is quite something for the local conditions at this time of year.
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Old 22-08-2011, 20:56   #18
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Re: I Returned my Rocna and Bought a Manson

Hi All,
I've been watching this soap opera from the sidelines. Not ready to change anchors yet but thinking about it.
Am I the only one that's come across this on the Manson website "*Damage by deformation or bending is not covered by this guarantee."
I'm wondering if others have tried to return their bent Manson Supreme and what their response has been?
It seems that if you bend the Supreme it's not covered under warranty? Why would they need to put this exclusion on the warranty?
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Old 22-08-2011, 21:52   #19
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Re: I Returned my Rocna and Bought a Manson

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Originally Posted by swanson36 View Post
Hi All,
I've been watching this soap opera from the sidelines. Not ready to change anchors yet but thinking about it.
Am I the only one that's come across this on the Manson website "*Damage by deformation or bending is not covered by this guarantee."
I'm wondering if others have tried to return their bent Manson Supreme and what their response has been?
It seems that if you bend the Supreme it's not covered under warranty? Why would they need to put this exclusion on the warranty?
I'm not aware of bent Manson Supreme's pictures all over the internet. Not saying it never has happened, just saying no pics I am aware of.
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Old 23-08-2011, 08:21   #20
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Re: I Returned My Rocna and Bought a Manson

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Originally Posted by impi View Post
We have put a swivel between the chain and anchor and we have a 12mm chain which is heavier than those of the leopards. It's a crap feeling sitting at anchor in a storm thinking about all that has been said on the forum - we expected and planned for the worst, monitored our position on the plotter all night in breaking seas and swung around plenty enough, but were bedded in really well. Lifted anchor the next morning expecting to see some form of damage - none at all. On the way back to Cape Point we anchored off Clifton and despite strong currents slept well and did not drag anchor at all. This is quite something for the local conditions at this time of year.
Glad to hear of it. I would point out, however, for the umpteenth time, that very few people are saying the new, Asiatic formulation of the steel from which the Rocna is made makes it a bad anchor, just not the anchor the inventor specified and the basis on which the Rocna was differentiated from its competitors.

According to C. Smith, endlessly. In related news, a Marilyn Monroe with a flat chest and backside might have been a pretty good actor...but not "Marilyn Monroe", clearly.

I would also submit that you seem to be a conservative and knowledgeable user of anchors of whatever type; that the use of a swivel is going to improve your chances of a quick (and perhaps unnoticed) reset; and that you are very aware of wind and bottom conditions in your cruising grounds and apply your anchoring knowledge appropriately.

In other words, your Rocna may or may not one day prove to be sub-par; or you could use a CQR with identical results, because you know how to anchor. Your technique aids and supplements whatever the anchor alone provides in terms of holding power and resetting. Give me sufficient chain and the right holding ground, and like the ancient Greeks, I can probably get a rock with a few pointed sticks lashed around it to hold.

So if it makes you happy to credit the Rocna, by all means do so. It's not a bad anchor, but it is no longer to spec. Your technique, if good, compensates. The price premium, however, still gets paid to Rocna, doesn't it?
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Old 23-08-2011, 13:47   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy

Glad to hear of it. I would point out, however, for the umpteenth time, that very few people are saying the new, Asiatic formulation of the steel from which the Rocna is made makes it a bad anchor, just not the anchor the inventor specified and the basis on which the Rocna was differentiated from its competitors.

According to C. Smith, endlessly. In related news, a Marilyn Monroe with a flat chest and backside might have been a pretty good actor...but not "Marilyn Monroe", clearly.

I would also submit that you seem to be a conservative and knowledgeable user of anchors of whatever type; that the use of a swivel is going to improve your chances of a quick (and perhaps unnoticed) reset; and that you are very aware of wind and bottom conditions in your cruising grounds and apply your anchoring knowledge appropriately.

In other words, your Rocna may or may not one day prove to be sub-par; or you could use a CQR with identical results, because you know how to anchor. Your technique aids and supplements whatever the anchor alone provides in terms of holding power and resetting. Give me sufficient chain and the right holding ground, and like the ancient Greeks, I can probably get a rock with a few pointed sticks lashed around it to hold.

So if it makes you happy to credit the Rocna, by all means do so. It's not a bad anchor, but it is no longer to spec. Your technique, if good, compensates. The price premium, however, still gets paid to Rocna, doesn't it?
Hi Alchemy
I hear you and do not dispute what you are saying about the spec not being what was advertised.

However, I do like the way the Rocna profile sets as an anchor (at least from what I saw and read) which is why I'm reluctant to hand mine back, which by the way, Graham at Seaport supplies in Cape Town whom I purchased the anchor from, has offered a return and full refund at any time. I copied him in on most of the discussions on this forum and he immediately offered to take it back.

I like to be out at sea with my boat and unfortunately in South Africa and around Cape Town, there are not many sheltered areas or bays to overnight in. Few sailors do ... They mostly return back to the dock whereas I drop anchor out there.

It is an overwhelming feeling to be in a storm on this anchor when so many 'experts' are singing doom and gloom on the forums about the same anchor I am using on my vessel. I was hugely stressed waiting for the worst to happen because of what I have read on the forum but also determined to give this one a try as my instincts were telling me it is what I need for my boat.

In South African waters, I have dragged enough anchors around enough bays to WANT to find an anchor that allows me to sleep without the anchor perimeter alarm screaming at me all the time.

My Chinese piece of 'crap' Rocna proved to be a delight in very heavy and rolling (actually breaking seas) seas. Yes - perhaps the swivel made a difference - I do not quite know?
What I can tell you is this .... I am very pleased I have stuck with my Rocna and it proved to hold fast in very severe conditions. The anchor alarm never sounded throughout the night.

My chain was set at a ratio 4:1.

I thought this news would be great to share for those few guys in the same predicament as me who own Chinese or other manufactured Rocnas. They are really good !
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Old 23-08-2011, 14:26   #22
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Re: I Returned My Rocna and Bought a Manson

Nothing wrong with the design of the Rocna or the Manson Supreme, both excellent anchors, the only contentious issue is the unadvertised change of material spec by the "NEW" owners of the Rocna design and their attempts to obfuscate the issue.
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Old 23-08-2011, 19:46   #23
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Re: I Returned My Rocna and Bought a Manson

Hi
FYI for whomever is interested this is the reply I received from Rocna.
Cheers

Hi Rick

Thank you for your enquiry and comments.

Glad to hear you are pleased with your Rocna.

Rocna anchors have been manufactured in three different countries (New Zealand, Canada, and China). Following extensive evaluations and testing we moved our production to a Chinese manufacturing facility in 2009. We partnered with a well-respected manufacturer in Shanghai, who produce Rocna anchors in their ISO-9001 accredited facility. We also have our own in-country staff who work closely with the factory and provide independent audits as part of our comprehensive quality assurance program.

In addition we have formed a long-term relationship with Italian based RINA (Registro Italiano Navale), an internationally recognized leader in certification and assessment of conformity, who have also been actively involved in our quality assurance program.



The exact materials used are part of the proprietary intellectual property involved in our production specifications, and grades of steel are carefully chosen to ensure they exceed the RINA Super High Holding Power (SHHP) requirements by a considerable margin, as mentioned above.

While our manufacturing material specifications have evolved over time, primarily to reflect the material locally available in the different countries where our anchors have been produced, our technical website content had remained largely unchanged. This oversight has recently been brought to our attention and we apologize for any confusion this may have caused. We have now updated this website content accordingly.



All Rocna anchors are designed to meet or exceed the requirements of SHHP according to RINA and Lloyds rules, and our relationship with RINA has resulted in Type Approval classification to SHHP (currently Rocna Original sizes 4kg-110kg only – you can see our certificate http://www.rocna.com/assets/Uploads/Rocna-RINA-Cert.pdf. This involved extensive seabed tests, mechanical tests, and drawings approval, and our work with RINA continues.

Current production anchors were recently tested and found to withstand forces well in excess of six times the SHHP proof load requirements. This load also exceeds the breaking strength of the recommended G40 chain by a considerable margin, clearly demonstrating the significant factor of safety in our design.



For a period of time during the first quarter of 2010, the shanks of some Rocna anchors were manufactured with steel sourced from a different supplier than usual.

While this steel had been approved on the understanding that it was of the same specification as that used previously, we recently discovered that this was not the case and that some anchors were produced using shank steel with a reduced specification. We stress that only a limited number of anchors were affected and at the same time we are deeply sorry for this mistake and apologise for any concern this may have created. Since discovering this discrepancy, our primary concern has been to ensure that these particular anchors are undeniably fit for purpose and pose no safety risk.

With this in mind we engaged a number of professional independent organizations to undertake extensive evaluations and testing. This has been a comprehensive and time-consuming process that is now complete. The results are:

· Our current production anchors were independently load tested using the RINA Super High Holding Power (SHHP) Type Approval test methodology. SHHP is the highest anchor rating available.

· Due to the unavailability of any of the limited number of anchors produced with the alternate material, we engaged a highly reputable marine engineering consulting company to calculate the maximum load capability of these anchors.

· The model developed predicted the load capability of the current production anchors within 1% of the demonstrated value, validating the accuracy of the model.

· The model then calculated a load capability for the alternate specification anchors of 471% of the RINA SHHP Proof Load requirements.

· This load capability exceeds the breaking point of the recommended G40 chain rode by a considerable margin.

These results confirm that all Rocna anchors, including those produced with alternate material, exceed RINA’s proof load requirements by a significant margin, clearly demonstrating the significant factor of safety in our design.


If you have any further queries please do not hesitate to contact us.

Regards
Martina
Rocna Anchors
t:+64 9 4471961/f: +64 9 480 9576
www.rocna.com/www.rocna.com/kb

Copy of my email to Rocna follows

Hi
I purchased a Rocna 33 kg anchor through Geoff at Waikawa Marine Rigging in 2010. I am extremely pleased with the anchors performance with our Alden 54 Mithrandir. I have also posted this message to websites. I have a simple question. Everyone has heard about the issue of some of your anchors rusting because they were made in China from less than optimum materials. What is your version and should I be concerned.
Thanks
Rick
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Old 23-08-2011, 21:02   #24
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Re: I Returned My Rocna and Bought a Manson

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Originally Posted by impi View Post

My chain was set at a ratio 4:1.

I thought this news would be great to share for those few guys in the same predicament as me who own Chinese or other manufactured Rocnas. They are really good !
I can't argue with your spirit at least. Being "out there" is why a lot of us spend the time, money and occasionally blood in the first place.

However, I do question the short scope. I would think, all things being equal, that a nice, shallow 7:1 catenary makes any anchor work better, whereas a shorter catenary would obviate some of the new designs' (not just Rocna) advantages.

In other words, why push your luck with a short rode. In heavy conditions, run out all the chain, use a waterline snubber, a bridle, whatever works on your boat to let the chain hold as much as it can via inertia and load dampening BEFORE having to test the sharp bit of metal buried in the former sea life.
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