How Much Scope?

[sailing now]

Not wanting to stir the pot here (yea right) but the last anchor I would never have on my boat is a CQR. Fire at will!

[s/v Jedi]

I am all confused... this is a 39' boat without windlass, a 35 lb CQR with 30' chain and the rest rope? Oh my, advice is easy here:

1. Buy and install electric windlass.
2. What does a Cal39 weigh? Buy a Rocna 33 (that's 70 lbs!).
3. Put 250' of 8mm - 5/16" HT chain on that
4. Set it at 5:1 using engine at half throttle or so
5. Sleep well

ciao!
Nick.

[Cheechako]

Well, the world has been cruised many many times around with CQR's, If it was the right size i wouldnt panic, but Nick's advice is the untimate answer for sure. (ot sure about 70 lbs though!)

[s/v Jedi]

Cheechako,

The 70 lbs is the biggest anchor specified for a 39' boat by Rocna. It depends on the weight of the boat and I have no clue about the weight of a Cal39, so I guessed high.

But I don't find a 70 lbs anchor a lot for a 39' boat. I see many 66 lbs CQR's on smaller cruisers that want to sleep well. We weigh 55,000 lbs and have a 176 lbs (80 kg) anchor.

I am quite serious about my previous post. I did actually see a couple of 39'ish cruisers without a windlass but they are the special cases, like the ones hauling backpackers between Central and South America etc. They just put a line of backpackers on the foredeck to "weigh anchor". I once sailed a 42' light sloop without the use of the windlass and it just wasn't safe.

ciao!
Nick.

[Bash]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I am all confused... this is a 39' boat without windlass, a 35 lb CQR with 30' chain and the rest rope? Oh my, advice is easy here:

1. Buy and install electric windlass.
2. What does a Cal39 weigh? Buy a Rocna 33 (that's 70 lbs!).
3. Put 250' of 8mm - 5/16" HT chain on that
4. Set it at 5:1 using engine at half throttle or so
5. Sleep well

ciao!
Nick.

...I think that a Rocna 25 kg will suffice for a Cal 39 with all chain.

[mesquaukee]

I love anchors.
A few years ago you had to have a Bruce to stay hooked. All of a sudden it didn’t work so good.
Going further back you had to have a CQR anchor as it was secure. Then it became insecure. The Delta and ones like it were so much better. They didn’t have that hinge and cost so much more and you could get them in stainless steel.
Mixed in with all that is the Fortress anchor, everybody still likes them. To me it looks like a lightweight knockoff of the Danforth anchor (the real one, not the ones with the bendy shanks).
I wonder when the Rocna will stop working and we will have to get something else.
To bad the old time tested fisherman doesn’t neatly fit on the bow roller.

[George Wade]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I am all confused... this is a 39' boat without windlass, a 35 lb CQR with 30' chain and the rest rope? Oh my, advice is easy here:

1. Buy and install electric windlass.
2. What does a Cal39 weigh? Buy a Rocna 33 (that's 70 lbs!).
3. Put 250' of 8mm - 5/16" HT chain on that
4. Set it at 5:1 using engine at half throttle or so
5. Sleep well

ciao!
Nick.

Anchoring to the formula is perfectly sane and 100 X better than guessing. At the same time it is nice to know what the bottom is. An ancient stone age sounding rock having a hollow filled with hard fat may bring up a sample. The kind of echo on the sounder may tell you too, combined with the chart symbols.

When the formula doesn't work because of shifting or strengthening wind: it is time to drop the religious aspect to said formula. Drop a second anchor on as long a scope as is needed to hold. If that is 20 to 1 you will lie quietly, comparatively. If you need to move anchorages: do it before trouble starts; well the next time, anyway, having become that much wiser from the experience.

If there are too many boats around: get the hell out to sea and heave to with a nice cup of tea. Which is what I'm doing now, myself, after only typing it out. + a shot of Chartreuse...

[George Wade]

Originally Posted by mesquaukee

I love anchors.
A few years ago you had to have a Bruce to stay hooked......

I wonder when the Rocna will stop working and we will have to get something else.
Too bad the old time tested fisherman doesn’t neatly fit on the bow roller.

The Eastern Peoples' anchor is what the Hatfield is a lightweight copy of. They range from typhoon to lunch hook in size and shape. It is not patented so will probably never get added to the medicine chest.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by Don Lucas

A couple of hours later was awoke to the sound of lines banging (weren't mine at the time), so knowing this met that the wind had picked up I popped up for a look. We had swung with a wind change and the wind was at 20 knots (was like 5-8 when we dropped), but we looked to still be set (was now 1 am of course and high tide was in 20 minutes). So go back to bed, but don't get to sleep because now my lines are banging so go up to take care of that (it's been about 10 minutes). I look around and realize we are WAY far away from where we just were and and had even drifted past the breakwater (good thing it was full moon and clear as I don't know if I would have noticed otherwise).

Saturday night was an adventure at many anchorages in the Northeast. Every marina was packed (Labor Day weekend), and there was no room to let out any scope. There was a sudden wind shift at around 2 am. I was at Cuttyhunk and the wind was over 30 knots with gusts to 35, with a sudden shift to the Northeast. Boats were dragging like crazy. About a half dozen boats spent the night cruising around that tiny harbor, too afraid to anchor and unwilling to go outside in force 7 winds. Plus it was low ride. Strange thing was, the night was clear and there was a fiull moon. One boat in the outer harbor at Cuttyhunk went up on the rocks. Very rough.

I left for Block Island at 6:00 am and it sure was a bumpy, wet ride. Surfed most of the way. I didn't see another boat until I was in sight of Point Judith.

When I got to Block Island, my friends said it was pandemonium there as well. One boat went up on the breakwater.

So you were not alone.

[Tom Hildebrandt]

I have been almost around the world, and I can say that nothing is set in stone about this anchoring stuff. I stll drag when others do not and do not drag when others are moving all over the place. I use all chain (3/8) with 22 kilo plow anchor, I have up to 100 meters of chain to use for my 16 tn steel hull, I like to be away from other boats and set out at least 4-1, often 5-1, and set it under half power, but sometimes... you have to be in with everyone and there is just not enough room to do what you like.

I heard one guy say after crossing the pacific and then the Indian Ocean, the first decent nights rest he had was when the boat was tied up in a marina for the first time in three years!

Unused chain and insufficient scope for us is like unused runway for pilots, usually not needed but there is no substitute when things get ugly!

[sailorboy1]

I already decided that I'm going to increase the amount of chain I have (I may have more than 30', may be 50' on it I'll have to measure to be sure). But, the 35# CQR I think is going to have to stay as my primary anchor (boat came with this 1 and I think overall it is a good choice for the area). Pulling it up by hand is just on the edge of what my back can take in 25' water. Anchored in 50' it took bothg of us to pull it up. Yeah a windlass etc would be great, but till it comes down to this boat being "The One" I'm not going to install one (will probably takes years of mooring fees to pay for the windlass).

I do have a Delta with chain/rope that I have down under the V-berth that looks un-used and woukld problably fit my bow roller. It seems bigger as far as flutes, but I don't know if it is any heavier (seems about the same). I also have a Fortress Danforth type that hasn't been fully assembled, have yet to go to a place that this would be a good anchor choice. For around I wish I had a fishersman hook sometimes.

[Talbot]

If the Delta is the same weight as the CQR, I would certainly change it over.

A manual windlass still takes the strain without breaking the bank. It is too late saying I wish, after you wreck your back!

Been there - suffering the consequences.

[Tom Hildebrandt]

You are right to make the decision for your chosen area of sailing, I would not carry so much chain if I were cruising in the Chesapeake Bay

The advice about a manual windlass is excellent, buy a used Simpson Lawrence 555 if you can find one, or a new one if they still make them new and your budget can afford it, the hand thing is go for a small boat but once youget up around 35 feet or so, pulling in the anchor by hand when the wind is kicking up a bit is not good for you, no matter how fit!

[Rene]

Your Captain took precautions " for insurance reasons" but try convincing your insurance company you have a valid claim when you drug onto a lee shore and had only a 2-1 scope that you hadn't bothered to set.

[Dreaming Yachtsman]

The process for anchoring that we have refined over the past 5 years from Vancouver, BC, to Panama to Belize goes something like this:
1) Wife drives the boat into the anchorage and decides, with my suggestion, where to anchor. Proceeding at bare steerage way into the wind we approach the spot.
2) When at desired depth, she backs down slowly.
3) At the onset of sternway, I drop the anchor by releasing the clutch.
4) When the scope reaches 2-3 times the depth of water, I order "All Stop" on the engines and grab the anchor chain by hand to "set" the hook.
5) If the chain gets pulled out of my hands, I know it has caught.
6) Then I pay out 5-7 times the depth of water, engage the bridle, and let everything settle out.
7) While I sight across the boat to marks on land, wife backs down, slowly increasing RPM to 1500 (half throttle) to make sure the anchor will hold in 30 knots of wind. Only then do we relax.
If the chain does not pull out of my hands in step 5), we reel it in and start the process over.

We have a 50# Hydrobubble anchor with about 400 feet of 5/16" HT chain on the windlass, a 50# Fortress with 100' chain and 300" nylon rode for a secondary anchor, and a 20# Danforth for a stern hook when needed. We have used up to 300 feet of chain in some conditions and nearly always have at least 100 feet out. This may seem excessive but we have dragged enough times to know that putting out too much anchor chain is very difficult to do. Of course we have an electric windlass so I don't have to break my back pulling up "a litttle extra for security."