How Much Scope?

[imagine2frolic]

Originally Posted by Don Lucas

It occurrs to me that when I brought my boat north after buying it and I had a capitain on board due to insurance requirements; we anchored in a protected harbor that was empty. When I put out the hook and got to 4:1 he said that was enough (I put out more anyway). After we had floated back a while and the hook "seemed" set I throttled up in reverse to be sure it was set and he said that wasn't needed. Maybe some people, even lisicend capitians, just aren't as worried as I am! Or maybe I just prefer to be sure.

Don,

You did the right thing, and I would've let out more scope after setting it in reverse stiffly. It's funny how casual people are when it belongs to someone else......i2f

[swagman]

Seems we've all been taught differing methods when putting down an anchor - but there are different ways to skin the same cat.

I was taught not to go heavily in reverse once it is on the bottom or you risk simply ploughing the bottom up. I was told too many people all doing the same in the same bay can quickly ruin the holding for later visitors - and I've seen this in busy bays used by hundreds of charter yachts each week.

I was always taught a light burst of reverse or simply using the rearward motion of the boat once the wind nudges you backward is normally enough to get the anchor set OK. And diving on the anchor when we've been able to do so has proved this method worked for us most times.

The times it has not worked were when the bottom was seriously rocky - and I do not think going heavily in reverse would have helped us in that scenario either.


Cheers
JOHN

[Talbot]

I have slept through the night very happy with my anchor, and never dragged or even felt it was a possibility on about 4:1. This was after an upgrade in anchor and chain size after I bought the boat. My PO was also talking enormous lengths of rode. IMHO if you need 10:1 for normal conditions, your gear is too light, and you have nothing in reserve for bad conditions.

[Cheechako]

A lunch hook , assuming you are watching for boat movement, would be 3 to 1 for me and anyone I know. I normally anchor with 5 to 1 in protected conditions and 7 to 1 a lot.

[Vasco]

Originally Posted by Talbot

IMHO if you need 10:1 for normal conditions, your gear is too light, and you have nothing in reserve for bad conditions.

I have a 45# Manson Supreme and 3/8 chain. As for reserve I have another 100 feet of chain and then 250 feet of 5/8 nylon three strand on the end of the chain. If I need it I also have a 44# claw with chain and nylon, this is on the bow too. The reason I put out 100 feet in 10 feet of water is that there is no such thing as "normal" conditions. In the Bahamas where I cruise a strong squall can come through most anytime and many anchorages have a very long fetch if the wind clocks. Better safe than on the rocks. Just ask the boats that are blown ashore every year, year after year in these waters.

[cchesley]

The nice thing about anchoring 10:1 in 10' of water is that most folks wouldn't even consider anchoring withing 2 boat lengths of you. So the dangers of close quarters also automatically limits it being a problem. 10:1 in 35' of water means that you hope that folks won't anchor within 300'+ of you. That's a pipe dream. (Yes, I know you can get closer if everyone is hanging uniformly on their rode but... the usual all chain vs mostly line issues and deep & hvy vs light and shallow boats make that significantly less predictable as well) Try a quiet PNW night with No wind...you really need a fully safe swinging radius, but you won't get it. I find 'crossing my fingers' to be another anchoring option, but sometimes that doesn't work as well as I'd like so it's not used too frequently!

[Bash]

Person X comes along at low tide and drops the hook in 8' of water. Thinking he'll go 7-1, he lets out 7x8', or 56' of rode.

I come along and anchor nearby, unable to go deeper into the cove because I draw 7'. I look at the tide tables and see that there will be an 8' swing to high tide, which means I'm really anchoring in 16' of water for purposes of scope. Being an seasoned cruiser, I also realize that my scope should be measured from the bottom to the bow roller, so since I have 4' of freeboard at the bow I realize I'm needing to use 20' as my "depth" when calculating scope. For me to go a full 7-1, I'd have to let out 140' of rode, which I realize won't work for this cove.

I look over at Person X's boat, which doesn't have solar panels, davits, a windlass or any of the other tell-tales of a true cruiser. Looking up at his bow, I see that Person X has a nylon rode, and since I'm using all chain I decide to let out 4-1 to "match" him. Even there, I set 80' of chain, which is 43% more rode than Person X has set.

So which of us has the better set? Me with my 4-1, or X with what he thinks is a 7-1?

[imagine2frolic]

Originally Posted by Talbot

I have slept through the night very happy with my anchor, and never dragged or even felt it was a possibility on about 4:1. This was after an upgrade in anchor and chain size after I bought the boat. My PO was also talking enormous lengths of rode. IMHO if you need 10:1 for normal conditions, your gear is too light, and you have nothing in reserve for bad conditions.

Talbot do you never get sudden storms going from 10 knots to 60 within a minute? I am sure you must have powerful winds coming down the fjords. So you are typing in all conditions you anchor 4-1?

You must understand in Florida, and the Bahamas we get all conditions in a matter of minutes. To sleep well, and be able to leave the boat for a day we set 10-1. After all it is Chapmans that claims 10-1 for storm conditions, and a squall reaching 60 knots at 2 am is a storm condition. Do you suggest getting up after the anchor is broken loose, and setting out more?

As far as reverse. Stiff reverse is not the same as plowing a field. I am trying to set the hook not become a farmer......i2f

[sarafina]

I have little anchoring experience, but when I have anchored my Grandpa taught me to put out two anchors, always. These were danforths and mostly in mud. I don't know what the ratio was, I just sort of know what the angle should look like at this point. I am interested to see no comments about a second anchor point. Is what I have been taught uncommon?

[Dave852]

I don't like the second anchor. If you have to leave fast in the middle of the night for whatever reason two anchors complicate things at the least. In some current vs wind anchorages they have a place but I will avoid those if possible.
If someone anchors near me with out backing down I will assess the chances for them to become upwind of me and sometimes relocate. I like to find out if my anchor is going to hold in a squall as soon as I put it on the bottom, not when the wind starts blowing later. There are those that believe if you are gentle and patient with your anchor it will somehow dig in on it's own over time. Not me, plenty of reverse, bury the anchor, find out now.

[sarafina]

I get the dig it in theory of living... We always dropped the rear anchor off the stern and pulled forward to set it tight and then dropped the forward anchor and reversed to set it and then took up the slack at each end so we were balanced in the middle, sort of, with more length out front than back. But I hadn't considered the speed issue. I guess it I were in that much of a hurry I would just cut line...

[dkall]

Like most things concerning boats there are many factors. Who's around you, how long are you staying, what are the wx conditions, what ground tackle setup do you have, and what's the bottom condition and can you match it with your tackle.

In the Bahamas we could (knowing the bottom) drop the hook going slowly downwind, I would pay out the scope I wanted and snub it when we got to the correct amt, the weight of the boat would set the anchor and turn the boat into the wind. Here in the Chesapeak, if I did that I would slowly come to a stop 100' beyond where I expected because so much of the bottom is soft mud on top and the anchor would slide slowly along. I need to let it sit for a bit then tug on it. Some places I needed to let it sit for a full day to tug (Back Creek , Annapolis) !

Fair Winds

[Reality Check]

Scope depends on conditions and your specific knowledge of the area. I know of one anchorage on Norman Island BVI where the winds will clock 240 over 24 hours with no significant front actions. When a front is in play you can assume you stand a good chance of clocking 360 possibly several times. This is one reason no one will use the Danforth/ fortress type anchors. Two anchors will often work but with out attachment to a swivel can result in a major problem when you want to pull the anchors up.

Setting an alarm on swing as most decent GPS systems will allow you to do is a Must as is having at least some form of anchor watch schedule even when these conditions exist as normal and your using what has been successful in the past.

[Bash]

Originally Posted by sarafina

I have little anchoring experience, but when I have anchored my Grandpa taught me to put out two anchors, always.

Long-standing anchoring etiquette--going back before your grandfather's day--is that the first one in the cove establishes the style, and everyone who follows must follow suit. It won't work if half the boats in a tight cove are anchored bow and stern and the other half are swinging on a single hook.

There are coves that are traditionally bow-and-stern anchorages, such as one often finds in the Channel Islands or in the Bahamas, but other than in such places your grandpa's "always" is wrong.

[Rising Star]

There is a lot of good advice here!

Being a simple man and a sound sleeper I have a 32 ft. 9,000 lb sailboat with a primary Bruce of 33 lbs and 100 ft. of 5/16 chain. a backup Fortress is ready on the bow.

My feeling is that chain does no good in the locker, therefore I use the entire chain when I anchor. If it's too crowded for that I will (and have) go somewhere else.