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Old 24-12-2021, 15:26   #46
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Re: Help me whittle down my anchors

Well if you want to find your boat still at anchor where you left it then two anchors set and of decent weight are required for piece of mind. One anchor is ok if you have dragging room or no hazards to drag into and are onboard. Minimum would be a 55 fortress. And 1 inch anchor road with 15 feet of 3/8ths or 7/16ths stainless steel chain between rode and anchor. I use an 85 fortress and 1-1/2 inch 3 strand nylon for 30knts plus. And set both the 85 and 55 in a stronger blow. You need at least 3 anchors onboard if you are cruising. And 600 feet of 1 inch line plus 400 feet of 1-1/2". You can use both ends of the 1" at the same time.

This is for a 60 foot power vessel 50 tons. Mostly used in the Bahamas and anchor in sand. -50 years of experience doing this- you need more anchor ability than you think you do.

Also have I a 4 inch diameter 150 foot anchor line with double ss chain connected to a 125 fortress which I have used for several hurricanes successfully.

Get rid of the rusty junk anchors. Use big Fortress (55 minimum) and for a lighter anchor the 25+ kg stainless steel Manta type you see on ebay are good. I have the SS 5kg and 7.5kg versions for the dingy. No rust.

Keep your non rusted current anchors in use for now.

Keep an 85 fortress disasembled in a box for emergency storm anchoring (and the SS shackles/Chain to connect it) .

When you need it, you need it now. Try shopping for an anchor during a hurricane threat - you won't find anything available.
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Old 24-12-2021, 16:00   #47
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Re: Help me whittle down my anchors

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Originally Posted by sailingunity View Post
I have 4 anchors on board and I'd like to whittle this down to 2. The vessel is a 47' ketch, 32000 lbs dry and is 47 years old... and I get the feeling every owner "upgraded" and kept the previous anchor as a spare. This is what I have:

Primary bow: 33 kg Rocna
Spare (stored in bow locker): 20 kg Bruce - needs regalvanizing
Spare (stored in a bracket on the stern): 43 lb Danforth
Spare (stored in lazarette): CQR 75 lb - needs regalvanizing (likely the original anchor to the boat)


Pretty obvious I'll keep the Rocna, though I have contemplated replacing this with a Viking which rated high in SV Panope's tests. For a secondary anchor I think I would only need something that could be used for stern or tandem anchoring but I don't know the history of these anchors well enough to know which one is best.



Short of anything specifically for anchoring on a rocky bottom. Though the Rocna serves asa substitute.

Also, I have a Bruce anchor permanaently rigged as a stern anchor (needed for Med mooring single handed, as I am)I'd also suggest a tripping line tied to the chain, at about 12m from the anchor.
Seldom needed but essential when you do snag something (usually an abandoned cable).

So I have a Danforth for soft bottoms.
There is little to choose between modern anchor patterns, But the Bruce IMHO is probably the "best" all rounder.


Regarding regalvanising, I've found it best to regalvanise anchors at about 7 year intervals, before the rust is noticeable. Try to get them in with an engineering firms galvanising load, or the cost for small batches makes new anchors an economic alternative.
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Old 24-12-2021, 16:09   #48
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Re: Help me whittle down my anchors

It really depends upon where and how you intend to cruise.

We went through a similar exercise when we first got this boat [which is similar spec-wise to your boat...]

First, ditch anything that is not right-sized for your vessel [e.g., the Bruce- even if it is a genuine Bruce...] Decide what is the best choice for a main bower for your boat and cruising area[s] condition[s] [and not just from your 3 remaining anchors...] and get one. Then decide which ramaining anchors to keep as a good secondary, specialty, kedge, etc.

If it is of interest, our ground tackle logic and choices are thoroughly documented [with many photos and reference links]- beginning with this blog entry. [no ads; no begging...]

Cheers! Bill
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Old 25-12-2021, 09:17   #49
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Re: Help me whittle down my anchors

I have too many anchors, too. In your case, I would ditch the cqr. And I like the idea of replacing it with a lightweight good oneó fortress or something.
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Old 25-12-2021, 09:27   #50
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Re: Help me whittle down my anchors

no-one has mentioned chain which, for my money, is 50% of the issue
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingunity View Post
I have 4 anchors on board and I'd like to whittle this down to 2. The vessel is a 47' ketch, 32000 lbs dry and is 47 years old... and I get the feeling every owner "upgraded" and kept the previous anchor as a spare. This is what I have:

Primary bow: 33 kg Rocna
Spare (stored in bow locker): 20 kg Bruce - needs regalvanizing
Spare (stored in a bracket on the stern): 43 lb Danforth
Spare (stored in lazarette): CQR 75 lb - needs regalvanizing (likely the original anchor to the boat)


Pretty obvious I'll keep the Rocna, though I have contemplated replacing this with a Viking which rated high in SV Panope's tests. For a secondary anchor I think I would only need something that could be used for stern or tandem anchoring but I don't know the history of these anchors well enough to know which one is best.
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Old 25-12-2021, 15:26   #51
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Re: Help me whittle down my anchors

Whatever anchor/s you choose, they should have a single smooth shank. Do not use Danforth or Fortress if there is hard sand or grass or weed covering the bottom, or where tidal movement allows the chain to wrap around the cross-bar of these designs - as happened to me twice. Only use the Danforth/Fortress design where the bottom allows easy resetting and where your strain is from one direction only.

Cheers, RR.
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Old 25-12-2021, 17:04   #52
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Re: Help me whittle down my anchors

Quote:
Also have I a 4 inch diameter 150 foot anchor line with double ss chain connected to a 125 fortress which I have used for several hurricanes successfully.
Drdoyle, I just have to ask: how in the world do you store, move around on the boat and attach (at either end) such a hawser? It seems impossible, even on a large MY such as yours. That rope must weigh around 600 lbs (if nylon) alone, plus the chain. And few small vessels have bitts adequate for attachment for 4 inch line.

Impressive... as is your other inventory of lines.

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Old 25-12-2021, 23:51   #53
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Re: Help me whittle down my anchors

Quote:
Originally Posted by drdoyle View Post
Well if you want to find your boat still at anchor where you left it then two anchors set and of decent weight are required for piece of mind. One anchor is ok if you have dragging room or no hazards to drag into and are onboard. Minimum would be a 55 fortress. And 1 inch anchor road with 15 feet of 3/8ths or 7/16ths stainless steel chain between rode and anchor. I use an 85 fortress and 1-1/2 inch 3 strand nylon for 30knts plus. And set both the 85 and 55 in a stronger blow. You need at least 3 anchors onboard if you are cruising. And 600 feet of 1 inch line plus 400 feet of 1-1/2". You can use both ends of the 1" at the same time.

This is for a 60 foot power vessel 50 tons. Mostly used in the Bahamas and anchor in sand. -50 years of experience doing this- you need more anchor ability than you think you do.

Also have I a 4 inch diameter 150 foot anchor line with double ss chain connected to a 125 fortress which I have used for several hurricanes successfully.

Get rid of the rusty junk anchors. Use big Fortress (55 minimum) and for a lighter anchor the 25+ kg stainless steel Manta type you see on ebay are good. I have the SS 5kg and 7.5kg versions for the dingy. No rust.

Keep your non rusted current anchors in use for now.

Keep an 85 fortress disasembled in a box for emergency storm anchoring (and the SS shackles/Chain to connect it) .

When you need it, you need it now. Try shopping for an anchor during a hurricane threat - you won't find anything available.
This advice may well have been the go to 50 years ago but anchor design has come a long way in that time, check out Steve Goodwin's excellent anchor appraisal video's.
One thing that hasn't changed is the rode is the name given to that which connects the anchor to the vessel, it may be all chain, all rope or a combination thereof, but it is the anchor rode.
Further I find it extraordinary that one would carry a 150 foot 4 inch diameter anchor line with double chain for a 60 ft power vessel, where the heck do you stow it and what on earth would you use it for.
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Old 26-12-2021, 08:52   #54
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Re: Help me whittle down my anchors

Really comes down to the space you have to store.

we carry a Danforth as the Primary, and I have a CQR set for a secondary, and a Danforth in a stern locker. The real issue is if it not ready to use then it is just taking space. I have the same debate in my mid, the Danforth stores so easy and is quick to get ready, but I have only considered it an emergency last resort due to its lack of weight.

Following other thoughts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingunity View Post
I have 4 anchors on board and I'd like to whittle this down to 2. The vessel is a 47' ketch, 32000 lbs dry and is 47 years old... and I get the feeling every owner "upgraded" and kept the previous anchor as a spare. This is what I have:

Primary bow: 33 kg Rocna
Spare (stored in bow locker): 20 kg Bruce - needs regalvanizing
Spare (stored in a bracket on the stern): 43 lb Danforth
Spare (stored in lazarette): CQR 75 lb - needs regalvanizing (likely the original anchor to the boat)


Pretty obvious I'll keep the Rocna, though I have contemplated replacing this with a Viking which rated high in SV Panope's tests. For a secondary anchor I think I would only need something that could be used for stern or tandem anchoring but I don't know the history of these anchors well enough to know which one is best.
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Old 26-12-2021, 09:25   #55
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Re: Help me whittle down my anchors

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Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post
Further I find it extraordinary that one would carry a 150 foot 4 inch diameter anchor line with double chain for a 60 ft power vessel, where the heck do you stow it and what on earth would you use it for.
He probably means 4" circumference. Ropes in that size are usually labelled in circumference in inches. Curiously in metric they use diameter in mm. 4" diameter hawsers would typically be used to berth the largest commercial vessels.

Even at 4" circ. that line would be overkill.
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Old 26-12-2021, 22:37   #56
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Re: Help me whittle down my anchors

2nd, hopefully more helpful attempt to respond.

What sort of cruising do you do? Where? What kinds of bottoms do you encounter? Safe scope vs realistic scope that may be used where you intend or have to anchor? What sort of anchor handling gear do you have and is it sufficient to handle all the anchors you need to keep you safe?

Answer these questions. Search Cruisers Forum for threads about anchors and you will find what I found, advice born of earned experience among the armchair advice from the likes of me.

I have a 26' boat I designed to cruise Great Lakes, North East Atlantic Coast, Chesapeake, Bahamas and beyond? Possibly an Atlantic crossing single handed. But it was mostly designed to safely cruise my teacher's lifestyle: Parents, 2 or 3 children for two months and not want to kill each other. Aft cabin privacy for Parents. No engine. 55 mph Truck / trailer to cruising grounds and back. Boat weighs approx 8,000 lbs loaded for cruising.

Anchors sufficient for any situation and the sailing capability / seaworthiness of the boat to keep us safe.

My rodes are half inch nylon. they lead directly from cleats (no chance of chafe) of sufficient size and fastened to the boat securely so as to keep the boat safe in all conditions.

After much research I bought a 28 lb Rocna (if I remember weight properly). It is my primary anchor. It is attached to 30' of 3/8" chain and 1/2" nylon rode. (same chain for all my other anchors). I carry two main rodes, and sufficient rope to make up a third or even a forth on lighter rope. Actually the main rodes are long enough that in most situations I will be anchoring in they can be used as two separate rodes.

I deploy my anchors by standing on the composting head waist deep in the forward hatch. In other words, when handling my anchors at the bow I am secure, and if concerned I can be roped in as well.

I have a 50 lb stainless steel plow I found for $50 at a garage sale. It easily separates into two parts. The plow part is fastened to the side of the hull, easy to get at, in the head, down low in the hull. The shank and chain are stored centrally fore and aft in the boat, low in the hull. Easy to get at.

High up in the head/forepeak/anchor handling area of the boat is a securely fastened 13lb Danforth and a Fortress several times larger but about the same weight. The 13 lb danforth proved its worth when I had to sail bare poles into a channel because I couldn't trust it to dig in and hold in the rock bottom outside the channel. Danforths can kite. Mine did. Wrapped itself around the leeboard and anchored the boat perpendicular to the gale of wind. I never begrudge anyone a good laugh but I was very glad I deployed the anchor after the entrance to the marina. It dug itself at least six feet into the silt bottom. Probably more. Hard as heck to break out. The rode was bar stiff until the brief storm passed. When I stood on it, It might as well have been steel.

After Danforths / Fortresses did into sand or mud they hold for as long as the pull is in the same direction, but they are prone to fouling when the boat wanders. They require lots of scope to hold.

A Rocna may or may not dig in and hold in rock. Smaller sizes like mine are less capable. At the weight of my anchor, it might or might not dig into a grass bottom. And might or might not hold if the boat wandered. However, when I bought it, it was the best choice I had for a main anchor.

Same with the plow. deployed with almost infinite scope on my lawn my 28lb Rocna dug in slightly more reliably than my 50lb plow.

But my fifty lb plow might have a better chance of hooking in a rock bottom than my Rocna.

If it wasn't an emergency and I didn''t know the bottom was easy for my anchor to dig into I would dive my anchor to make sure it was set.

In an emergency I would hook my plow to my main rode and chain, hook the Rocna at the end of thirty feet of chain to the plow and deploy them both. I would expect the Rocna to dig in and hold and the plow's weight to improve the Rocna's holding power whether it dug in or not. But it might be that the plow would be the hero.

Rocnas are not as good as Bruces or CQRs on short scopes. (You have a CQR and can count on it having the qualities attributed to plows. Knockoffs may or may not live up to the CQR reputation.)

My Rocna, danforth and Fortress can be set 120* from each other on the bottom to form a temporary "permanent" mooring.

And I have lots of other anchoring choices because I have enough anchors to give me choices.

Someday I may trade my plow for a 35 lb to 50 lb claw, but the plow I have stores in two pieces and is stored out of the way. Storing a claw would not be as convenient. Lighter claws are not reliable enough to meet my needs from a claw anchor.

I took up mountain biking and my boat sits unused in my yard. When I get too old to ride with my pro rider daughter and husband and their friends (no I cannot actually keep up with them) I may go cruising and take the grand children with me. I can't sell the boat for what it is worth. It doesn't cost me anything to keep my dream in my yard.

So take my 2 cents comments for what they are...

But in my mind you don't have too many anchors, the CQR is valuable for filling the niche it fills and is worth regalvanizing or painting with zinc paint to prevent deterioration or staining your boat. Have appropriate anchor gear for the situations you may encounter. It is not just a question of anchors. Think Anchoring Systems
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Old 27-12-2021, 00:17   #57
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Re: Help me whittle down my anchors

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric ROGUE View Post
2nd, hopefully more helpful attempt to respond.

What sort of cruising do you do? Where? What kinds of bottoms do you encounter? Safe scope vs realistic scope that may be used where you intend or have to anchor? What sort of anchor handling gear do you have and is it sufficient to handle all the anchors you need to keep you safe?

Answer these questions. Search Cruisers Forum for threads about anchors and you will find what I found, advice born of earned experience among the armchair advice from the likes of me.
.................................................. ..................[/B]
Search the forum and discover Steve Goodwin"s excellent appraisal of anchors, modern and not so modern, possibly the best examination of what's available and what works and what doesn't.
Pleased that your rocna experience is so good for you, especially the lawn capacity, however my rocna experience left me cold and was replaced with a sarca excel, for which I have warm and fuzzy feelings.
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Old 28-12-2021, 22:36   #58
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Re: Help me whittle down my anchors

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Pleased that your rocna experience is so good for you, especially the lawn capacity, however my rocna experience left me cold and was replaced with a sarca excel, for which I have warm and fuzzy feelings.
Thanks.

At the time I purchased the Rocna is was best match of my needs for a main anchor. I took a quick look at the Sarca Excel and it looks like an anchor I should investigate further. I don't use a bow roller so the Rocna roll bar is not a disadvantage, but I was not impressed when the Rocna didn't dig into my lawn more reliably than it did. Not a real test. Back then, the real tests showed the Rocna to be superior to other anchors then available, but imperfect none the less (rocks and scope being less than stellar). I will check out the anchor review. Thanks for the reference. If I return to sailing I will reassess my anchors. I have a handy to deploy place to stow my Rocna, but I'll bet the Sarca Excel would be easier to stow. And being less awkward I might go with a heavier Sarca Excel for the advantages size and weight provide when deployed.

But if I decide to go cruising, I will do a complete re-evaluation of anchors and the choices i make regarding what anchors I will carry, and my anchoring system(s). One must avoid thinking only of the anchor.

After a frustrating half hour trying to search this site I searched YouTube. Lots of references but No links. It finally dawned on me to search YouTube. His work is very interesting. Link to Steve Goodwin's anchor tests https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...in+anchor+test
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Old 29-12-2021, 06:29   #59
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Re: Help me whittle down my anchors

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post
Search the forum and discover Steve Goodwin"s excellent appraisal of anchors, modern and not so modern, possibly the best examination of what's available and what works and what doesn't.
Pleased that your rocna experience is so good for you, especially the lawn capacity, however my rocna experience left me cold and was replaced with a sarca excel, for which I have warm and fuzzy feelings.
I've heard great things about Excel's, but I've heard some accounts of Excel's being tripped by the chain on reversing currents. Has this ever happened to you? Supposedly if the anchor doesn't set deep enough for the flukes (or one of the flukes, if it sets sideways) to be completely buried, the chain gets caught on the edge and pulls it out. The roll bar anchors would seemed to be less prone to this as the bar would help guide the chain over the edge of the anchor.

I'm very interested in Viking and the performance numbers SV Panope has logged for it, but it's such a new company / design and very few accounts from people out there using them.
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Old 29-12-2021, 07:15   #60
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Re: Help me whittle down my anchors

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I've heard great things about Excel's...
It's kind of hilarious that Sarca says their Excel "is not a plough anchor." It looks like a knock-off of a Delta. Surely it's an improved version, but let's face it - it's a plough-style. That said, I think plough anchors are good complements to scoop anchors (rocna, mantus, spade, etc) as they usually perform better in certain bottoms. I notice the alloy Excel is also demountable, so one of them would make a perfect back-up to your Rocna/Danforth mix.
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