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Old 23-09-2013, 09:32   #16
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Re: Ground Tackle Systems

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Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
just a couple thoughts on it. with 200 ft of chain you can anchor 5:1 in 40 feet of water without getting to the rope. If you ever have a need to anchor in say 75+ feet of water.... keep in mind that you'd better have a way of using the windlass to pull the rope rode in.... the weight of the chain dangling below the boat is too much to hand it in.
Also, let's say you have 80 feet of depth, when you come to the chain rope splice... how will you hold the rode while you try to wrap the rode around the rope drum on the windlass? (ie: what is the weight of 80 ft of chain?) You need a plan/ and items to do this. With the catenary you might be dealing with the weight of all 200ft of chain.
Everything is a compromise for sure. and I have often went with 200 + 200 like you have.
You bring up a good point. On my current windlass it is a piece of cake to change from rope to chain rode (with weight on the rode), but not all windlasses are designed that way. Something to think about.
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Old 23-09-2013, 09:39   #17
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Re: Ground Tackle Systems

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Low pressure system that blew into Cabo San Lucas; if we're talking about the same one.
To anyone that has not read the Pardey's excellent "What happened at Cabo San Lucas" I highly recommend it. One of the best things I have read on anchor systems. It is in Capable Cruiser.

Lots of great take-aways, but the biggest for me was if you know things are heading south, get out of there. Being able to quickly ditch or pull your hook and sail out of an anchorage is something we do not see discussed enough in anchor systems perhaps.
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Old 23-09-2013, 09:57   #18
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Re: Ground Tackle Systems

I was there the following year.. some nice hulls still on the beach....
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Old 23-09-2013, 10:29   #19
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Re: Ground Tackle Systems

The old method of SLIPPING YOUR CABLE should be in your bag of tricks, so you can get the hell out of a dangerous spot in a hurry. Cheechakos point about the dangers of trying to change from rope to chain should be taken seriously. It would be too easy to lose anchor and chain or fingers, or toes. I am also of the longer the better, school of thought. Of course money comes into it. As has been said a whole anchor system runs a lot of money, but how much is your boat worth to you? _______Grant.
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Old 23-09-2013, 15:56   #20
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Re: Ground Tackle Systems

We've always liked having a 300 foot length of chain even though, we usually had only half the chain out. There were times such as when we were cruising the Marlborough Sounds of New Zealand, when we had to anchor in 90 plus feet of water, with afternoon winds gusting above 70 knots. Then we were glad to have all chain doing its work. But the full length came into play beyond it's use in deeper water when we wanted to set a permanent mooring so we could leave the boat safely while we delivered someone's boat. By putting an anchor at each end, then securing a swivel to the middle of the chain, we had a truly storm proof set up (proven during three winter blows in Pichilinque, near La Paz Baja, California and again in Andratx Harbor, Mallorca. So we felt comfortable about leaving the boat. Another advantage is, when our chain begins to show signs of rust, usually from having the galvanizing rubbed off on a rocky bottom or against a coral head, we can end for end it and the inner 150 feet is usually like new. This way we get another year before we have to have it re-galvanized.
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Old 23-09-2013, 17:21   #21
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Re: Ground Tackle Systems

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Seems I recall reading somewhere that the manufacturers sizing was based on 20 knots wind max. And for 20 knots, a 45# might be OK. But at 40 knots you have four times the wind pressure as at 20 knots. 60 knots doubles wind pressure again from 40 knots. Not to mention wave action.

Lewmar has a nice CYA note: (from their website) Sizing information is for guidance only, please contact a qualified expert for specific advice or contact the relevant Classification Society for specific certification requirements.

Most folks think going 2 sizes up from manufactures recommendation for cruising is a good start. This for the old school anchors BTW.
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Old 23-09-2013, 18:08   #22
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I would be deeply fascinated by the highly experienced opinions on modern anchors like the rochna
http://www.petersmith.net.nz/boat-an...on-anchors.php
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Old 23-09-2013, 19:28   #23
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Re: Ground Tackle Systems

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I would be deeply fascinated by the highly experienced opinions on modern anchors like the rochna
Old Generation Anchors: What
I think you can do a search on CF for quite a few threads concerning rocna and mason. General thought is they hold very well. There were issues with quality control of rocna for a bit, but they are better now. Peter Smith left a rather bad taste in many folks though.

There have been several reported cases of Rocna's dragging too, so no anchor is perfect. Me I use a Bruce as it sets first time every time. Rocna's and Masons are a bit too spendy for my blood.
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Old 23-09-2013, 19:42   #24
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Re: Ground Tackle Systems

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Seems I recall reading somewhere that the manufacturers sizing was based on 20 knots wind max. And for 20 knots, a 45# might be OK. But at 40 knots you have four times the wind pressure as at 20 knots. 60 knots doubles wind pressure again from 40 knots. Not to mention wave action.

Lewmar has a nice CYA note: (from their website) Sizing information is for guidance only, please contact a qualified expert for specific advice or contact the relevant Classification Society for specific certification requirements.

Most folks think going 2 sizes up from manufactures recommendation for cruising is a good start. This for the old school anchors BTW.
Old school, new school I say the bigger, the better. This is no place to save money. Your anchor is the cheapest insurance you can carry so carry the biggest one you can handle and use it as your working anchor, then figure out how to carry something even larger for a storm anchor. Going up two sizes from manufactures recommendation has always been the suggestion for working anchors - no matter what type they are.
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Old 23-09-2013, 19:52   #25
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Re: Ground Tackle Systems

A repeated statement from many who have new gen anchors, after even having "correctly sized" earlier anchors has been: "Wow, it pulled me off the bow, it set so fast." That has been my experience, too. This is NOT a statement or discussions about the size of the anchor, the type of boat, the quality or size of the previous anchors folks might have had, but just a repeat of many statements I have read. One must, of course, size the anchoring system for your boat and expected/anticipated conditions.
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Old 23-09-2013, 20:11   #26
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Re: Ground Tackle Systems

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Originally Posted by Lin Pardey View Post
Old school, new school I say the bigger, the better. This is no place to save money. Your anchor is the cheapest insurance you can carry so carry the biggest one you can handle and use it as your working anchor, then figure out how to carry something even larger for a storm anchor. Going up two sizes from manufactures recommendation has always been the suggestion for working anchors - no matter what type they are.
Like many others on here, I hung on these words of Larry & Lin, and similar words of Evans and others, when I put together ground tackle for my new boat four years ago.

I must say, however, that it it possible to overdo it. I started out with a 55kg (121 pound) Rocna which was just too hard to handle, didn't fit my bow roller well, etc., and didn't actually work as well as I expected it to. I replaced it with a 100 pound Spade which is just right and works superbly. So you have to consider handling along with everything else.

As to chain -- I currently carry 100 meters (330 feet) of 1/2" "high test" (G40). How much chain you need depends on where you sail and how much draft your boat has, and what is the range of tide. Sailing in SW Florida with a boat with only 4 1/2 feet of draft, and negligible tides, I rarely used 100 feet of chain.

Nowadays, with 8' of draft and in areas with up to 45 feet range of tide, 100 meters is not overkill. I spent four days last summer anchored in water which was nearly 100 feet deep at high tide, in Ushant, with the wind howling the whole time (typical for Ushant), with every inch of my chain out and glad of it.


By the way, fun fact -- a recent test by Practical Boat Owner in the UK showed that all the G30 ("low test") and G40 ("high test") chain sold in the UK was more or less the same material, more or less meeting high test standards, some better quality than others, of course.
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Old 23-09-2013, 20:19   #27
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Re: Ground Tackle Systems

Having cruised extensively with the old CQRs I can attest to the improvement in design of the newer generation anchors. We put a 110# Spade on the bow and, like Evans, it is our primary and our storm anchor. Unlike the CQR, the Spade sets as soon as it hits. There is no dragging unless you are trying to anchor over a tennis court.

John and Phyllis of Morgan's Cloud have cruised extensively in Labrador and Greenland and they swear by that anchor. Advice from people like them and others like Lin and Larry is hard won experience from those who have been there - many times. I listen to them carefully.

Ain't no chart or table is going to convince me otherwise.

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Old 27-09-2013, 10:26   #28
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I will never see the conditions in freshwater that you coastal cruisers or voyagers encounter & that suits me just fine. I do anchor out enough that I recognize how important the appropriate ground tackle is. Not willing to take a chance on drifting away some night while comfortably asleep & being ran down by a tow or float into a wing dike or dam I think it's common sense to use much larger gear than the manufactures recommend. My boat is close to 20,000 lbs I have 300' of 5/16 bbb with a FX-37 on the bow & Muir cougar windlass with controls on the bow & flybridge. My spares are a FX-23 + 150' of 5/8" double braid & a FX-16 & 150'. I use the Fortress anchors because they work very well in the mud & sand bottoms here on the rivers. I think the most important part of anchoring for the night is to drop the hook while there is still plenty of daylight so that you can be sure you've got a good set that gets better as the current works on the boat & the Fortress buries itself deeper. I do what I can to insure that my boat will not be damaged by dragging anchor but more important that myself & any crew remain safe.
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