Getting Chain Out of the Bow

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I'm not familiar with the term "chainwell", but that sounds like a very good solution.

As I understand the differences with a chain locker and a well are: Chain well is placed below waterline, has a sump and a pump, is shaped as a pipe and has a spurling pipe. A locker might have some of these features but not all so IMHO is not as well as a well

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

That is contrary to my understanding. I have always been taught that weight in the bow kills pointing ability. If I'm wrong, I would be glad to be enlightened.

I suspect this is hull shape dependent. In some classes it is certainly true--most multihulls. In other classes the benifit is solely increased aparent waterline. And like anything, it can always be taken too far.

The best way to find out is to sail alongside another boat that is steady and close hauled, and get a number of crew to move forward. Does it help?

Preserving the bulkhead sounds wise. My through hulls are forward of my crash bulkhead, and one failed (only a moderate leak, really) during our delivery trip; that bulkhead looked very freindly! However, a hose had pierced the bulkhead and been poorly sealed, allowing some leakage, underscoring the importance of leaving the bulkhead unmodified.

[IdoraKeeper]

Interesting that you frequently indentify issues that many of us have. In my case I am already bow down and have 230 ft of the same chain as you currently use. I need at least another 100' of chain for some expeditions I am contemplating. I can't have the extra chain in the bow. I have the additional complications of a manual windlass. Adding rope rode transforms a one man recovery into a three crew operation. One to crank the windlass, one to belay the line on the rope side of the windlass and one below to flake the line into the chain locker to ensure an orderly chain pile. None of this works for me. I will be curious to learn how your solution progresses.

[Randyonr3]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

That is contrary to my understanding. I have always been taught that weight in the bow kills pointing ability. If I'm wrong, I would be glad to be enlightened.

same here, as when racing I would carry a gps around my neck on a lanyard watching the speed.. I'd come out of the cockpit and work my way up the windward side . the fast place to be was about the forward window, bow down and transom out of the water..

[savoir]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

That is contrary to my understanding. I have always been taught that weight in the bow kills pointing ability. If I'm wrong, I would be glad to be enlightened.

Weight in the bow kills speed not pointing.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by savoir

Weight in the bow kills speed not pointing.

If you kill speed, you automatically kill pointing, don't you? If you lose boat speed, leeway goes up. The key to pointing well is keeping boat speed up,at least, that's what I was always taught.

[Paul L]

Looking at the charts that Tom (Thinwater) put up and judging from Dashews example, it looks like 3/8 G40 would be fine in your case. That would eliminate your concern about G70 chain. I use 5/16 G70 on my boat. The chain is 2 years old and hasn't been re-galvanized yet.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

If you kill speed, you automatically kill pointing, don't you? If you lose boat speed, leeway goes up. The key to pointing well is keeping boat speed up,at least, that's what I was always taught.

This all of this depends on the specific boat shape. Many boats are faster with the bow imersed; what I implied about a longer apparent water line, and a cleaner transom exit.

Don't guess. Test it.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

I'm not a big fan of getting rid of chain either. It remains to be seen if the chain is the cause of the green water also.
Beware that chain pipes often don't work well at all. Tried it on two different boats (because I read the "how to" cruising books too much!) Chain jammed, wouldn't go down or sometimes go up etc. These were pretty vertical pipes too.
Personally I'd opt for 150-200 of chain with nylon backup if I had to do that.

I am assuming the second locker will not work automatically with the windlass. I see it mainly as storage and plan on having to hand feed the chain down the pipe from the main locker.

So would not be using when anchoring frequently. When moving around a lot, doing ICW or island hopping I would keep the appropriate quantity of chain in the main locker. Potentially all of it. Just move the chain into the lower locker when necessary, mainly on a long passage. Of course never stow the chain until well at sea since one never knows when an anchor could be needed in very short order.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

skipmac,
I love your idea. To take it one step further, you could take a spare pipe cap, cut it in half & have tabs welded onto it. Then drill & tap the tabs so the 2 halves could be bolted together. And file a slot into the center of the cap to fit the chain's profile.
Then when you bolt it around the chain, put a little putty on the links; in, above, & below the cap to make it totally water tight.
Thus, there'd be little need to cut the chain in order to separate the two lockers.

Or, one could simply install a swivel in the chain at that point. So it'd be easy to separate the 2 sections. KISS

Thanks. Will work up a sketch. There is a nice empty, unused spot under the bunk in the forepeak that plan for this. Haven't measured exactly but is roughly 4-5' lower and similar distance further aft than the original chain locker which is right at the bow.

Other than moving some of the weight one of the reasons for this idea is to avoid a swivel or link or any other discontinuity in the chain. I know there are some really strong, solid ways to connect chain, even rated over overhead lifting but call me paranoid or maybe just superstitious.

[Scot McPherson]

Check out the advanced sharpies, their bows are designed to dip into the water, take some water on to slow the pitching. It's really ingenious actually.

[zeehag]

i had my secondary anchor, a 45 pound cqr with its 250 ft chain attached, on my bow while motor sailing from zihuatenejo north to barra, or at least, when we started out toward barra, northand upjhill, we had that situation. as we felt some major lack of comfort as the boat performed so poorly in seas, i unceremoneously removed anchor fromn chain, affixed anchor to mast, some 10 ish feet abaft its former (on rollers) location, dragged 198 ft of that chain back and plopped it into the forward portion of my cockpit well, and kept on motor sailing with much much more stability of boat.
bow down is unsafe and unpleasant in many of our sailing boats.

[JAYEN1]

Leave it!

[Stumble]

I just have this nightmare scenario of long lengths of chain first being pulled thru the bilge cutting into the fiberglass, then being stored in dank tubes and small well turning into a pile of rusted mess, slowely leaking rust and fiberglass shards into the rest of the bilge. Nothing about this sounds like a very good idea.

Going to stronger lighter chain with nylon end for leingth seems like a no brainer to me. Assuming that there is enough chain to handle the majority of anchoring situations alone you will rarely use the nylon, and when you do it is unlikely to be on the ground anyway. If you are worried about holding power then just add a bigger anchor.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Stumble

I just have this nightmare scenario of long lengths of chain first being pulled thru the bilge cutting into the fiberglass, then being stored in dank tubes and small well turning into a pile of rusted mess, slowely leaking rust and fiberglass shards into the rest of the bilge. Nothing about this sounds like a very good idea.

Going to stronger lighter chain with nylon end for leingth seems like a no brainer to me. Assuming that there is enough chain to handle the majority of anchoring situations alone you will rarely use the nylon, and when you do it is unlikely to be on the ground anyway. If you are worried about holding power then just add a bigger anchor.

I'm not really worried about holding power (100 pound Spade), but when it's blowing a hoolie, it's a great comfort to have 330 kg of chain between you and the anchor.

But I think on this boat, anyway (the naval pipe etc is possible only on some hypothetical future boat), the lighter chain plus rope is the only option.

That's what I'm going to do and I'll report on the results.