General consensus on Ultra Anchor

[CarlF]

Looking at these videos, they all seem to be at 3.5:1 scope. I never anchor at less than 5:1

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by OrinocoFlo

The Ultra anchor is far superior in performance over the Rocna in it’s ability to dig deeper and reset. We’ve used a Rocna and switched eight years ago to using an oversized ultra 45kg on our 53Ft 25 ton boat and upgraded the existing anchor to an Ultra 60kg on our 44 ton 625. Both have Ultra swivels. When my husband Ken wanted to use an Ultra 45kg on the 625, I insisted we upgrade to the Ultra 65kg for added security. Regarding the cost, it’s well worth paying the extra $5,000 so we can sleep well at night. We’ve been using Ultra anchors for eight years.

Pam

You don't think that buying oversized anchors had something to do with it?

[OrinocoFlo]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

You don't think that buying oversized anchors had something to do with it?

No I don’t.

The Rocna anchor we used for two years on our much lighter Hunter sailboat was also oversized. It dragged twice, first when it became clogged up with mud near one of the Long Beach California oil islands, then the second time over at Catalina island when it became clogged up with kelp and weed which took my sister in law’s boyfriend a 1/2 hour to cut free using a knife. Then we totally lost confidence in the Rocna anchor when it was recalled and returned. West Marine was very good about handling the anchor return.

We always use oversized anchors.

The original poster asked for a recommendation from an Ultra anchor user, we use two of them, one for each boat. So I posted my honest opinion of a product we’ve been using for eight years. I like them and trust them.

Pam

[Ultra Marine West]

Hi everyone,

I am a family member and the director of sales and marketing of the ULTRA Marine-Boyut Makina, the designer and the manufacturer of the ULTRA product range and the new owners of Ultra Marine West since July 2016.

In advance, I must apologize for that long post. (I am also worried that most of you will not read it all, but this is still my shortest version.)

We have been following this group for a long time, but as of the beginning of that year, we started to advertise here and follow up better.

Since I am related to the ULTRA business, I prefer to stay silent as much as possible on these threads that is way it is our first post.

However, I now think I would share a couple of technical details regarding our ULTRA Anchor concept.

First of all, even though we think that we are better than them, I must say that we love all the new generation anchors listed here. We are so happy to see the huge performance difference between each new generation anchor and old generation anchors.

We wish the best for all other anchor manufacturers, so I will try my best to explain our concept without making any bad comments on the others by naming them.

The main thing I would like to explain here is that the ULTRA Anchor is not expensive.

From a manufacturer's point of view, finding it expensive is something we don't accept. It indeed requires a higher budget to purchase the ULTRA, but considering the labor cost on each ULTRA Anchor, it is not an expensive anchor at all.

ULTRA is a self-righting anchor without a roll-bar due to its weight distribution coming from using a hollow shank and lead-filled tip.

The anchors with roll-bar are in total 3 or 4 pieces only the shank of the ULTRA Anchor has five pieces. I am not even mentioning the difficulties in its body and tip. Shortly the shank of the ULTRA alone costs more than these total anchors.

The reason we tried to make a self-righting anchor without a roll-bar is that we didn't care about any manufacturing easiness, but we tried to design and manufacture the best anchor of all times.

Here you mostly mention if I choose an anchor with a roll-bar, I will choose this one; otherwise, I would choose another one.

An anchor with a roll bar could never outperform ULTRA due to below reasons;
* These anchors cannot make burry themselves like ULTRA due to their roll-bar resistance in the opposite direction, especially on mud. (Here I read confirmation on that from a roll-bar anchor owner.).
* Roll-bar only functions at the hard sea bottom, and it doesn't work on seaweeds so that these anchors might have big issues on weedy-grassy sea bottoms. (Here I read confirmation on that one, too.)
* Once the anchor is on its side at the sea bottom, the opposite roll-bar weight might cause them to turn and start holding after a while. (You need to try both roll-bar anchor and ULTRA to feel that difference.)
* During recovery, once these anchors are upside down, the roll-bar weight in the opposite direction doesn't let them turn the right way up so that recovery would be a big issue, too. (I guess they're a many out there complaining their roll-bar anchors are coming up-side-down to their bow rollers.)
* During recovery of a roll-bar anchor, you will find yourself cleaning the sea bottom coming to your boat with it that will never happen with the ULTRA. (I read a confirmation that one here, too.)
Shortly considering the extra labor we spent to make the ULTRA self-righting without a roll-bar and the above advantages, we don't think that it is expensive.

Though we came up in 2004 at nearly the same time with the best know roll-bar anchor, our problem was that it is too difficult to manufacture the ULTRA Anchor; therefore, we could never manufacture as many as others. That is why we didn't advertise it as we were already easily selling all the anchors we could make. However, we recently made some major investments to increase our capacity with the positive feedback we are getting from each ULTRA Anchor owners, and we are now ready to sell more to you guys.

It is still your understanding to find it expensive or not, but please at least try to rethink from that point of view to judge the money you need to spend to purchase an ULTRA Anchor.

Also, as you may know, ULTRA comes with serial number and lifetime warranty plus we do offer an upgrade policy in the USA, such as we credit off 50% of what you paid to us in your original purchase in your next ULTRA Anchor purchase. We sell these experienced ULTRA Anchors with a significant discount from our website's Pre-Owned section, which sells pretty quickly.

Once again, I am so sorry for taking your time with such a long post.

Erkutay Yucel

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by Ultra Marine West

The main thing I would like to explain here is that the ULTRA Anchor is not expensive.

They are compared to any other new gen anchor in galv.

Here in Australia, a 27kg Manson supreme is $799
An ultra in the same size is $3120.

Take that out to a 150 to 17Olb which we use and there is a quite large difference in price, about 4 anchors worth in fact.

An anchor with a roll bar could never outperform ULTRA due to below reasons;

Possibly not out perform but I reckon they can be just as good.
We have been in 60+ knots with a similar sized boat with a similar sized anchor.
He ultra, me Manson supreme
Neither of us dragged.

We have also seen 80+ and didn't drag.
That same boat ran away back to his marina berth before the storm

* These anchors cannot make burry themselves like ULTRA due to their roll-bar resistance in the opposite direction, especially on mud. (Here I read confirmation on that from a roll-bar anchor owner.).

We anchor in mud and sand regularly
Often in strong reversing tidal situations
We have never had a problem setting and never dragged an inch in over 1200 nights at anchor
(Here you have read confirmation on that from a roll-bar anchor owner.)

* Roll-bar only functions at the hard sea bottom, and it doesn't work on seaweeds so that these anchors might have big issues on weedy-grassy sea bottoms. (Here I read confirmation on that one, too.)

We also regularly anchor in weedy grassy areas and have never had an issue there either.
In fact the only issue we ever have is getting the anchor back,so deeply it is buried..
Mud is often over the hoop and packed into several meters of chain indicating it was well buried.
(Here you have read confirmation on that from a roll-bar anchor owner.)

[Muaddib1116]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

They are compared to any other new gen anchor in galv.

Here in Australia, a 27kg Manson supreme is $799
An ultra in the same size is $3120.

Take that out to a 150 to 17Olb which we use and there is a quite large difference in price, about 4 anchors worth in fact.

True, but they are priced very similarly to other stainless next gen anchors. The stainless Spade is a little less and the stainless Excel is higher. The stainless Richa and Mantua are also a little higher. It also seems true that it is a more difficult thing to manufacture, so given that, it is not relatively expensive.

It may be that the design is unfeasible in galvanized steel. For a couple reasons, probably.

[Ultra Marine West]

Comparing galvanized anchor with a stainless steel one doesn't look fair. You should compare our price with the same size, other ss anchors, considering the extra labor we spend to make its shank hollow and put lead in it.

ULTRA Anchor is stainless steel by design. Galvanized anchors are covered by zinc in hot galvanization tubes around 450 centigrade degrees, but the lead inside the ULTRA melts around 290 centigrade degrees. Plus, the hollow shank is also too risky during the galvanization as it might explode. So there is no way to galvanize the ULTRA design.

We could leave a open hole and put the lead in after galvanization, but these anchors will get rusted in time, so once you galvanize it again whole lead will be gone, and you will have to find a way to put the lead back in. So that is not a good solution, either.

We, as the designer and the manufacturer of the ULTRA Anchor, didn't want to make an ss beautiful/expensive anchor; instead, we chased the best possible anchor design without worrying about the manufacturing easiness. The way we see, we are offering such a complex anchor design with comparable pricing with the other ss anchors, and it is up to you to appreciate it or not.

[rslifkin]

I agree that stainless vs stainless is the fair comparison. But for me (and probably a lot of others), any stainless anchor is expensive enough to be totally off the table. I'd rather spend $800 on a galvanized anchor and not have it look perfect after a few years than spend $3000 on a stainless anchor. That $2200 (actual cost difference for a 33kg Rocna in galvanized vs stainless) can pay for a lot of other things I should do or need to do on the boat. Or fuel, etc. to use the boat.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

You don't think that buying oversized anchors had something to do with it?

I would not call those anchors oversized at all. I am using a 45kg Spade on a 54', 20-odd tonne boat, and it is one size smaller than the previous anchor, which was 55kg. This is about what you want for a boat that size for serious cruising off the beaten path, where you may have to get through quite bad weather at anchor.


I would use an even bigger anchor than that, if I had windlass and bow roller which could handle it. There is no downside to a bigger anchor, almost without limit, except weight in the bow and handling.

[Muaddib1116]

Everyone operates at a different budget and luckily there are really good options at various price points on the market. It seems like the Ultra is a good anchor, in the performance category of a lot of the popular new-gen anchors. The fact that it is only offered in SS and at that price point will limit it's appeal to a big portion of the market, but it doesn't take away from it's performance. And clearly they feel like making a cheaper version would compromise quality, and they're not willing to do that, which I respect.


I think this thread has given me a fair amount of confidence in the Ultra's performance. I would, of course, welcome additional user experiences, good or bad. But continually bringing up the fact that it is priced higher than other brands' galvanized versions doesn't really add much to the conversation.

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by Ultra Marine West

ULTRA Anchor is stainless steel by design. Galvanized anchors are covered by zinc in hot galvanization tubes around 450 centigrade degrees, but the lead inside the ULTRA melts around 290 centigrade degrees. Plus, the hollow shank is also too risky during the galvanization as it might explode. So there is no way to galvanize the ULTRA design.

We could leave a open hole and put the lead in after galvanization, but these anchors will get rusted in time, so once you galvanize it again whole lead will be gone, and you will have to find a way to put the lead back in. So that is not a good solution, either.

I find it hard to believe that the pressure in the shank would be sufficient to blow apart heavy-gauge steel at 450º. And if the lead is fully encapsulated, what would it matter that it melts during the hot-dip - it would freeze again afterwards. You could electroplate or flame-spray the anchor if not hot-dipping.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

I agree that stainless vs stainless is the fair comparison. But for me (and probably a lot of others), any stainless anchor is expensive enough to be totally off the table. I'd rather spend $800 on a galvanized anchor and not have it look perfect after a few years than spend $3000 on a stainless anchor. That $2200 (actual cost difference for a 33kg Rocna in galvanized vs stainless) can pay for a lot of other things I should do or need to do on the boat. Or fuel, etc. to use the boat.

Why stainless anchors are so expensive, I don't know. 316 costs about $3000 per tonne, so the premium shouldn't be so huge, but I guess that's the market.


I've heard nothing but good things about the Ultra, but why would you pay the same or even more for a Turkish imitation of a Spade, than for the real thing? I never really understood that, either.


I have been using the ordinary galvanized Spades for more than 20 years. They are great anchors, but comments above about problems with the galvanizing are correct. And they cannot be easily regalvanized because of the lead ballast. My only solution has been to use them often enough that the rust is rubbed off by the sea bed.


I suppose a stainless one would be a decent solution, but the cost! Also I am a bit leery of using stainless -- which is subject to crevice cracks -- underwater. I've seen a broken stainless anchor on one yacht (not a Spade or Ultra, but still).

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

I find it hard to believe that the pressure in the shank would be sufficient to blow apart heavy-gauge steel at 450º. And if the lead is fully encapsulated, what would it matter that it melts during the hot-dip - it would freeze again afterwards. You could electroplate or flame-spray the anchor if not hot-dipping.

Obviously it can be done because Spades are galvanized. I believe the lead on those goes in after galvanizing.



But the other question is RE-galvanizing, which unfortunately is not so simple. If you "encapsulated" the lead, maybe that would work, provided there is no air bubble in there which could blow the whole thing up when hot-dipped.



Maybe that's worth a try -- weld up the holes before galvanizing. I'll be having my chain regalvanized in Germany next month -- I'll ask the galvanizers about it.

[Muaddib1116]

The construction of the Ultra is obviously more complex than the Spade. Maybe "exploding" is an exaggeration, but it's to believe that trying to galvanize what is essentially a sealed pressure vessel would result in warping or deformation at the least.

[Dockhead]

What's more complex about it? Spade shank is fabricated from sheet steel. The hollow part isn't sealed. No reason why the hollow part of the Ultra shank couldn't be left open, too.

No, I think the Turkish company simply specialises in the high margin bling niche and doesn't need to compete in the lower margin sectors. I think most of their production goes onto gin palace motor yachts. Looks like an excellent business strategy to me; hats off.

Originally Posted by Muaddib1116

The construction of the Ultra is obviously more complex than the Spade. Maybe "exploding" is an exaggeration, but it's to believe that trying to galvanize what is essentially a sealed pressure vessel would result in warping or deformation at the least.