General consensus on Ultra Anchor

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

Its a totally ridiculous calculator.

60kg for a lightweight low windage cat
45 kg for a heavyweight high windage powered vessel
Anyone with half a clue would recognise that our vessel at 70,000kg needs a considerably larger anchor than you.

Something is definitely broken.

Yeah, but you have to admit they sure do look purdy on the bow of a Riv.

[Ultra Marine West]

Originally Posted by fxykty

I’m looking at options for shoreline rope reels. Ultra have a very good looking one that I was checking out (though I’m likely going to order a less expensive one from EasyRoll). While I was on the Ultra site (https://www.ultramarine-anchors.com) I saw their anchor size calculator.

Now, the funny thing I saw is that rather than radically undersizing the recommended anchor size as I’ve read on this thread, the calculator actually oversizes the suggested anchor! I’m a 54 foot long sailing catamaran and the recommendation is for the UA60 - a 60kg anchor! Wow, that’s big.

By reference, for an Outremer 51 (new generation, slightly smaller and slightly heavier than our classic 55L) Spade suggests the S140, a 30kg anchor. That happens to be our current anchor. Going up two sizes for storm yields the S180, a 45kg anchor. Sarca Excel suggests #6, a 30kg anchor. Going up one size for multihull and two for storm yields the #9, a 50kg anchor.

I guess Ultra anchors aren’t as efficient as they claim and need more weight to work as well as other new generation non-roll bar anchors? Weird.

The anchor selection is not an easy task. There are many variables and different expectations.

Swivel selection, on the other hand, is more relaxed. It goes with the chain size and the anchor weight only.

When I checked the Spade website, they offer S180 (45kg) to x yacht 50 cruising, while we recommend the UA35/77 (35kg). So what would you say now?

Making a general statement in a way that you like by relying on a single example doesn’t look right at all.

ULTRA offered that test deal with the same size another generation anchor you had so you can experience the real performance difference coming from its design.

[rslifkin]

Ideally, someone would provide an anchor calculator that's based on actual boat dimensions, not just length and type. So something like length, beam, deckhouse height, power vs sail, weight. Maybe actual surface area from the front and side if known.

That would give far more accurate sizing estimates.

As far as Spade's suggested sizing, their chart seems to give (for my boat at least) an anchor 1 size smaller than Rocna suggests. And 1 or 2 sizes smaller than Mantus suggests, depending on whether you look at the working or storm column in their chart.

[Ultra Marine West]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

Ideally, someone would provide an anchor calculator that's based on actual boat dimensions, not just length and type. So something like length, beam, deckhouse height, power vs sail, weight. Maybe actual surface area from the front and side if known.

That would give far more accurate sizing estimates.

As far as Spade's suggested sizing, their chart seems to give (for my boat at least) an anchor 1 size smaller than Rocna suggests. And 1 or 2 sizes smaller than Mantus suggests, depending on whether you look at the working or storm column in their chart.

I agree, but such an anchor calculator wouldn't be that practical as most of the boat owners out there don't know the answers to these questions. We already based on all these details to come up with the figures in our calculator. That is why our calculator asks for the type of boats, too.
However, it is still easy to see people with a lack of general knowledge about boat designing find our calculator broken.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by fxykty

I guess Ultra anchors aren’t as efficient as they claim and need more weight to work as well as other new generation non-roll bar anchors? Weird.

This type of reasoning is quite common amongst the anchor buying public. It is one of the reasons why companies suggest small anchor sizes. It is also why most experienced cruising sailors generally select a model significantly larger than the recommended size.

If company A recommends a 30 kg anchor and company B recommends a 50 kg anchor for the same sized boat, then the anchor from company A must perform better. Right? Using this logic Delta anchors are obviously better than Rocna. As an added incentive, equipping a boat with the recommended size Delta is much cheaper than the recommended size Rocna. This latter point is especially true for boatbuilders, as a smaller sized and therefore less expensive anchor means a smaller, lighter bowsprit and windlass, even the boats statistics such as listed displacement will be a little better with the lighter choice. Boatbuilders want to ideally use anchors sized about the same as example shown below . If an anchor company wants to sell to the big production boatbuilders they need to consider and sometimes pander to these requirements.

We need to stop encouraging this tendency for anchor manufacturers to recommend undersized models, by pointing out the fallacy of the logic. We are starting to see silly examples in an effort to trump other designs such as under 9 kg (20 lb) steel anchors recommended for 15 m (49 foot) boats.

Unfortunately, many people starting to cruise believe the anchor manufacturer knows best and will blindly follow their advice without realising that anchor sizing tables are heavily influenced by the desire to promote the anchor design.

The recommendations from many manufacturers should be viewed more as advertising material rather than sound advice.

[GRIT]

That's an incredible offer, from Ultra. Talk about standing behind your advertising!

I'm in Canada, so don't qualify, but I'll be in the USA in the fall, and if the offer still stands, I'll be trying out an Ultra anchor.

For comparison, I'm using a Spade S200, at 55kg. Ultra suggests 99 lbs, and I'd opt for the 60kg, one size up never hurts.

Ultra is also the only manufacturer, I've seen, that separates different kinds of boats, as well as length and weight. Kudos to you for that too.

Noelex: Well said. I'm of the exact same opinion. I based my purchase on surface area, not weight.

Cheers, and thanks for joining CF.

Paul.

[Ultra Marine West]

Originally Posted by GRIT

That's an incredible offer, from Ultra. Talk about standing behind your advertising!

I'm in Canada, so don't qualify, but I'll be in the USA in the fall, and if the offer still stands, I'll be trying out an Ultra anchor.

For comparison, I'm using a Spade S200, at 55kg. Ultra suggests 99 lbs, and I'd opt for the 60kg, one size up never hurts.

Ultra is also the only manufacturer, I've seen, that separates different kinds of boats, as well as length and weight. Kudos to you for that too.

Noelex: Well said. I'm of the exact same opinion. I based my purchase on surface area, not weight.

Cheers, and thanks for joining CF.

Paul.

We are thinking about extending that offer untill the end of the year as it takes time for the members to hear about it.

Noelex: I put my signature under your last thread about anchor selections.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

This type of reasoning is quite common amongst the anchor buying public. It is one of the reasons why companies suggest small anchor sizes. It is also why most experienced cruising sailors generally select a model significantly larger than the recommended size.

If company A recommends a 30 kg anchor and company B recommends a 50 kg anchor for the same sized boat, then the anchor from company A must perform better. Right? Using this logic Delta anchors are obviously better than Rocna. As an added incentive, equipping a boat with the recommended size Delta is much cheaper than the recommended size Rocna. This latter point is especially true for boatbuilders, as a smaller sized and therefore less expensive anchor means a smaller, lighter bowsprit and windlass, even the boats statistics such as listed displacement will be a little better with the lighter choice. Boatbuilders want to ideally use anchors sized about the same as example shown below . If an anchor company wants to sell to the big production boatbuilders they need to consider and sometimes pander to these requirements.

We need to stop encouraging this tendency for anchor manufacturers to recommend undersized models, by pointing out the fallacy of the logic. We are starting to see silly examples in an effort to trump other designs such as under 9 kg (20 lb) steel anchors recommended for 15 m (49 foot) boats.

Unfortunately, many people starting to cruise believe the anchor manufacturer knows best and will blindly follow their advice without realising that anchor sizing tables are heavily influenced by the desire to promote the anchor design.

The recommendations from many manufacturers should be viewed more as advertising material rather than sound advice.

I agree!


The Ultra recommendations for mono sailboats look pretty good to me. They recommend a 45kg anchor for my boat, which is what I have been using for some years by now. It's two sizes oversized according to the Spade wizard. Note that the Spade wizard (Anchor Selector Wizard) is a sophisticated one, which considers both LOA and displacement. My boat falls into the <65' and <20 tonnes category, and might need the next category since loaded displacement is somewhat more than that. Then, for a given category, you get to choose whether it's for extended cruising, coastal cruising, or kedge. The extended cruising anchor for this category is the S140, 30kg.



So does this mean that the 30kg Spade is equal to the 45kg Ultra? Ridiculous. The Spade might be better, but not by that much. What this means rather is that Ultra are giving more conservative recommendations, and more in line with what I think one really needs, so hats off to them.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

.

If company A recommends a 30 kg anchor and company B recommends a 50 kg anchor for the same sized boat, then the anchor from company A must perform better. Right?

But in this case its company A (ultra) recommending a 60kg anchor for a light, low windage catamaran
And company A (ultra) recommending a 45kg anchor for a far heavier, high windage trawler.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by Ultra Marine West

I agree, but such an anchor calculator wouldn't be that practical as most of the boat owners out there don't know the answers to these questions.
.

Do you really think most boat owners are that clueless?
They would need to have an idea for insurance, registration, marina berth and slipping.

We already based on all these details to come up with the figures in our calculator. That is why our calculator asks for the type of boats, too.

It doesn't cover displacement/weight

However, it is still easy to see people with a lack of general knowledge about boat designing find our calculator broken

If your calculator puts a lighter anchor on a heavy displacement, high windage boat yet puts a heavier anchor on a light low windage boat its pretty obvious its broken.
This from an ex boat builder with 40 years in the industry,, aluminium super yachts to composite lightweight multihulls , so I believe I have "general knowledge" about design.

[Panope]

I received an Ultra Anchor today, as per Ultra Marine West's generous 1 year trial offer. Shipping container is in pristine condition.

As I mentioned previously, my boat is still on the hard, so the best I can do for now, is to attach the Ultra to the anchor chain, and report on how the anchor stows in the bow roller.

Unfortunately, I have had a mild fever for about a week, and am on a self imposed bed rest/lock down due to Corona Virus.

Stay tuned.......

And thanks again to Ultra Marine West.

Steve

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Panope

I received an Ultra Anchor today, as per Ultra Marine West's generous 1 year trial offer. Shipping container is in pristine condition.

As I mentioned previously, my boat is still on the hard, so the best I can do for now, is to attach the Ultra to the anchor chain, and report on how the anchor stows in the bow roller.

Unfortunately, I have had a mild fever for about a week, and am on a self imposed bed rest/lock down due to Corona Virus.

Stay tuned.......

And thanks again to Ultra Marine West.

Steve

Attachment 210714

Well, good for them, and good for you, Steve, for your responsible behavior. Our best wishes for a speedy and easy recovery.

Jim

[Panope]

Thanks, Jim and Ann

Steve

[Ultra Marine West]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

But in this case its company A (ultra) recommending a 60kg anchor for a light, low windage catamaran
And company A (ultra) recommending a 45kg anchor for a far heavier, high windage trawler.

We based on American Boat and Yacht Council studies when we first prepared that table. Once again, anchor selection is not an easy task. That is why we believe the best is to rely on customer happiness, so from time to time, we still update that chart with the feedbacks coming from users.

Even though our table is still one of the most complicated ones, but once we say High Profile boats, there are powerboats in that category like below MCYs or Nordhavns. So we cannot distinguish them, that is why we try to stay on the conservative part as much as possible. Power Cats, in general, are the least customers we had, so we don’t have many ULTRA users on the low windage cats so that we might still be too conservative at that section. If that is the case, we will surely update it in time.

Anchor manufacturers and boat owners are not the enemies. Our goal is to find the perfect size anchor for your needs. The anchor users, as per their requirements, can select the one we recommend or one size smaller or one size bigger. They all are fine.

Please see these recommendations as a lead, not as a rule.

[Ultra Marine West]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

Do you really think most boat owners are that clueless?
They would need to have an idea for insurance, registration, marina berth and slipping.


It doesn't cover displacement/weight

If your calculator puts a lighter anchor on a heavy displacement, high windage boat yet puts a heavier anchor on a light low windage boat its pretty obvious its broken.
This from an ex boat builder with 40 years in the industry,, aluminium super yachts to composite lightweight multihulls , so I believe I have "general knowledge" about design.

" Do you really think most boat owners are that clueless? "

As noted, we are not enemies, so I wasn't criticizing the boat owners when I said they mostly don't know the answers to these questions. I was talking about facts. During the last Miami Boat Show, nearly half of our visitors didn't know the loaded weight of their boats. I can't imagine asking them their boats' actual surface area from the front and side. Once again, that wouldn't be practical. I wish that would, but it wouldn't….