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Old 30-01-2013, 20:51   #1
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Fairleading the Snubber

Many of us have two bow cleats, installed near the toe rail for lines led through the chocks. We have a windlass but no Sampson post. We use a single snubber over the bow roller, and the snubber doesn't run fair from the roller to either bow cleat.

How do you prevent chafe? Chafe gear? Or do you fairlead the snubber by installing a cleat close to centerline, in line with the bow roller? Or do you hitch a short line to the snubber and taking tension to the opposite cleat (like a Barber Hauler)? What's worked for you?
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Old 30-01-2013, 21:38   #2
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Re: Fairleading the Snubber

Here's a sketch of the snubber arrangement:

Snubber Arrangement.pdf
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Old 31-01-2013, 02:40   #3
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Re: Fairleading the Snubber

Quote:
Originally Posted by cfarrar View Post
Many of us have two bow cleats, installed near the toe rail for lines led through the chocks. We have a windlass but no Sampson post. We use a single snubber over the bow roller, and the snubber doesn't run fair from the roller to either bow cleat.

How do you prevent chafe? Chafe gear? Or do you fairlead the snubber by installing a cleat close to centerline, in line with the bow roller? Or do you hitch a short line to the snubber and taking tension to the opposite cleat (like a Barber Hauler)? What's worked for you?
On our bridles we put chafe sleeves....
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Old 31-01-2013, 04:33   #4
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Re: Fairleading the Snubber

Quote:
Originally Posted by cfarrar View Post
Many of us have two bow cleats, installed near the toe rail for lines led through the chocks. We have a windlass but no Sampson post. We use a single snubber over the bow roller, and the snubber doesn't run fair from the roller to either bow cleat.

How do you prevent chafe? Chafe gear? Or do you fairlead the snubber by installing a cleat close to centerline, in line with the bow roller? Or do you hitch a short line to the snubber and taking tension to the opposite cleat (like a Barber Hauler)? What's worked for you?
What worked for me was fitting a big F-O Samson post but prolly won't work for most.

How about dropping a snatch block over the snubber and taking it's tension to the other cleat (as you sort of suggested - Barber Hauler style)
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Old 31-01-2013, 05:31   #5
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Re: Fairleading the Snubber

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Originally Posted by cfarrar View Post
How do you prevent chafe? Chafe gear? Or do you fairlead the snubber by installing a cleat close to centerline, in line with the bow roller? Or do you hitch a short line to the snubber and taking tension to the opposite cleat (like a Barber Hauler)? What's worked for you?
We have the same arrangement. I simply run the snubber as a bridle through both scuppers. Our scuppers are polished bronze, so very smooth, but if I'm going to sit on anchor for a long time it's easy to set chafe guard.

I considered running the snubber as you've drawn, but the force vectors mean there would be more strain on the snubber line, and there is a lot more to chafe against. It would require a lot more protection, and as you say, probably require special effort to run the snubber clean.

As an added benefit, I find the bridle arrangement reduces our motion at anchor as we bounce from one snubber to the other. Of course, our boat doesn't move that much anyway, so perhaps this wouldn't work on other keel designs.
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Old 31-01-2013, 05:44   #6
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Re: Fairleading the Snubber

Quote:
Originally Posted by cfarrar View Post
How do you prevent chafe? Chafe gear? Or do you fairlead the snubber by installing a cleat close to centerline, in line with the bow roller? Or do you hitch a short line to the snubber and taking tension to the opposite cleat (like a Barber Hauler)? What's worked for you?
Use re-enforced hose over the snubber as chafe protection, and also a barber hauler as suggested, but use a riding shackle over the snubber.
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Old 31-01-2013, 05:56   #7
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Re: Fairleading the Snubber

I have the snubber line go through a 12" length of 1" sanitary grade hose. I have had the same piece for over 3 years and no sign of chafe with regular use.
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Old 31-01-2013, 07:02   #8
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Re: Fairleading the Snubber

A really good question!

My evolving solution:

1. Rigged a line between the two bow cleats; secured the snubber to that at the mid-point, rather than to either of the cleats.

2. A piece of hose as a chafe sleeve.

3. Finally: secure the end of the snubber to my inner forestay chainplate.


It's a PITA! All the result of designers' having eliminated samson posts in modern sailboats, the bar stewards! A proper sea boat needs a stout samson post, in my opinion!
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Old 31-01-2013, 07:59   #9
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Re: Fairleading the Snubber

A three foot length of hose does it.
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Old 31-01-2013, 11:54   #10
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Re: Fairleading the Snubber

Thanks for the input, everyone. This gives me some good ideas.

If not a Samson post, then I wish designers would spec new boats with three big cleats - one for each chock and one on centerline. The center cleat could be used for a snubber or a rope rode, if all the chain is payed out. Massive backing, of course. The windlass could be a little off centerline.

DH, if I only had an inner forestay. I'm thinking about installing one. Anyway, the windlass would still be in the way.
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Old 31-01-2013, 12:24   #11
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Re: Fairleading the Snubber

Another possible solution is a third cleat on the bow. My boat was built with a recessed windlass that stands on its own shelf in the chain locker. next to the windlass is a cleat the same size as my bow cleats. I have two anchor rollers, and run the snubber from the 2nd roller to the cleat by the windlass.

[EDIT] Oops. I composed this while the previous post was being posted. It seems that Hunter has responded to cfarrar's request for a middle cleat.
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Old 31-01-2013, 13:14   #12
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Re: Fairleading the Snubber

Newby question.....why attach the snubber on the deck? Why not attach it just below the bow sprit and run a small line to the hook that can be used to pull it back up on deck when its time to pull the anchor. Seems chaffing would be a non issue this way.
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Old 31-01-2013, 13:29   #13
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Re: Fairleading the Snubber

Sachs, thats a pretty decent idea. I'm going to think about this. Putting a super strong mounting point in a glass hull might be the only issue. Less to work with in the pointy end but very doable.
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Old 31-01-2013, 13:57   #14
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Re: Fairleading the Snubber

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Originally Posted by Matt sachs View Post
Newby question.....why attach the snubber on the deck? Why not attach it just below the bow sprit and run a small line to the hook that can be used to pull it back up on deck when its time to pull the anchor. Seems chaffing would be a non issue this way.
There are people that do this, with a block dangling right off the front of the bowsprit. The Pardey's talk about doing it this way and really recommending it. The only reason I don't is because it's lot quicker to tie a running hitch and call it good.

Practically the other problems are finding a block big enough (they get quite pricey when you're talking about 3/4 or higher line), it will get lots of salt water spray, and you need to find a way to mount it quite securely to the bowsprit itself.

Not a problem I've needed to tackle yet but it's on my list. I managed to pick up a block on sale and I want to give it a try before I'm in screwed up enough conditions that I need to have it working.

Additionally, the line *still* doesn't run fair when you do that. If you run a block at the end of the bowsprit, you'll still need to (probably) go over the deck to get to a cleat, so there you are with a chafe point again.

Just seems like a lot of hassle, especially when you consider how easy it is to just fit multiple snubbers off the side, use leather chafe patches, and let some snubber out constantly to not let chafe wear through.

The guys who have lost boats because of snubbers breaking, unless because of bad sizing, were generally dealing with nylon that melted from the constant expansion / contraction. One recommendation (I want to say from .... moon dancer, in fiji, washed up on a beach in a hurricane?) was to secure the bitter end with something like amsteel. No stretch and yeah, it's full shock load to the cleans/posts, but at that point it's either that or have the windlass rip out or lose the boat entirely.

Or, avoid hurricane season.
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Old 01-02-2013, 01:15   #15
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Re: Fairleading the Snubber

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A really good question!
........
It's a PITA! All the result of designers' having eliminated samson posts in modern sailboats, the bar stewards! A proper sea boat needs a stout samson post, in my opinion!
Yes, gotta agree. My 31' Dogger being as 1970's ex-racer had a tiny horn cleat for all forward lines...Agghh..

Out it came and I fitted a 4" x 4" stout samson post. It goes down to the keelson, I added a new bulkhead to brace it laterally and under deck partners forward to the stem and aft to the anchor winch. The timber used was Wandoo, very hard and dense hardwood, so dense that it does not float. Possibly the strongest part of the boat now Eucalyptus wandoo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sorry for the thread drift but retro fitting a samson post is one good alternative
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