Fabricate spade anchor

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

"You can't lump patent, trademark and copyright together as one.
They are legally very different."

1- Yes, you can.
2- And no, they aren't necessarily different. They're all artificial protections on creative aka intellectual effort.

Or, as Chairman Mao said:
"Black cat, white cat, all same. Catch mice."

You might say a black cat and a white cat are not the same. Others would disagree.

And you can lump truth and false together, as they are both words.

[Paul Elliott]

Originally Posted by cyan

As someone with my name on several patents, I can promise you that MOST patents are simply improvements on previous designs.

And as someone with at least fifteen patents to my name (many of these were team efforts -- I'm not always the sole inventor), I can promise you that you are absolutely correct. Many patents, and certainly some of mine are minor improvements indeed. Some of my patents are more significant than that and those I'm pretty proud of. But all of them owe something to "prior art", and this prior art is described in the body of the patent.

Anyway, these improvements and inventions are the result of a lot of hard work and no small amount of skill and inspiration and expense. We patent-holders create something original and useful, and in return for sharing the details of this design with the world, we are given a certain amount of protection for a limited period of time.

And even while the patent is in force, by sharing the design we are advancing the state of the art. Someone is perfectly free to study our designs and figure out a way to do it better. And more power to them, because I'm going to study how they did it and try to do better myself the next time.

So I get a bit annoyed when someone thinks they can copy a patented work without permission just because they want to. If patents are ignored, this eliminates one of the incentives people have to invest in improving the state of the art.

[thinwater]

I'd like to see this energy go into discussing why anchors drag.


If folks are curious about what a patent covers, I suggest pulling one up an reading it. Remember that a patent is NOT required to reveal all that is needed to make it practical, only what they wish to protect. The flip side is that which is kept secret is not protected. A common method is to make many claims, without making it clear which combination actually works. I've done this on formulation patents; working through the permutations would take years.

[cyan]

Originally Posted by thinwater

I'd like to see this energy go into discussing why anchors drag.

I'm with you there.

As i understand it, part of the Spade anchor's design brilliance was the "ballast" which places around 50% of its weight right on on the TIP. As CF member "Spade" so openly disclosed earlier in this thread, this involves a lead core for part of it. It wouldn't be rocket science to slice up a Spade and map the cross-sectional composition. With the expired patent, the copy cats might have fun.



What interests me, though, is a better approach yet. I read somewhere that the Kiwi-rollbars on Rocna and Mantus reduce this important ratio to more like 30%. If the balance is so important, why shouldn't such a rollbar be something like carbon fiber?



Another (wild) thought is an emergency one-time use "anchor" that could be deployed in the unlikely event of an approaching cyclone. This would be an auger or a compressed-air (explosive?) driven pin that could drill into the sea floor and provide a no-fail grip. Maybe even serve as a mooring anchor afterwards? One might complain of a permanent thing on the sea floor, but if the alternative permanent thing is a sunken ship then it could be justified, no?

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by thinwater

I'd like to see this energy go into discussing why anchors drag.

Google "anchor drag" 17,000,000 hits.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by thinwater

I'd like to see this energy go into discussing why anchors drag….

That’s easy … b/c it wasn’t adequately set & dug-in, with appropriate rode and anchor, for the conditions.

[fieldmedik]

Originally Posted by Mr B

Same here, Engineer, Blacksmith, Boilermaker DLI welder,
Own my own company,
I just made a copy of the three new generation anchors,
Took the best ideas of all three that I liked and made one up,
The shank is Bissaloy 350, Old left over excavator jaw bits,
It wont bend no matter how much stress is put on it,
I made it out of scrap bits of steel I had laying about my yard,
The point is Stainless Steel, Ground to a point,
Its about 75 LB, with the point weighing at 35 Lb,
The hoop is .26 carbon steel,
The base plates are 350 Carbon steel,
Welded with S6 Mig wire,
The chain cant get entangled no matter which way its rolled over,

One problem I did have was getting the point to weigh more,
I widened the hoop up about an inch, So the point went from 10 lb to 35 Lb,
The more you can get on the point, the better it bites in,
I had to make up a new bow roller to fit it on, The original was too small for it,
Have a look at Panope's Video's on anchors, They are very informative,

Cheers, Brian,

Nice, I want one!

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by thinwater

I'd like to see this energy go into discussing why anchors drag.


If folks are curious about what a patent covers, I suggest pulling one up an reading it. Remember that a patent is NOT required to reveal all that is needed to make it practical, only what they wish to protect. The flip side is that which is kept secret is not protected. A common method is to make many claims, without making it clear which combination actually works. I've done this on formulation patents; working through the permutations would take years.

The patent application requires the patent application to disclose the best mode of the claimed invention.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by cyan

I'm with you there.

As i understand it, part of the Spade anchor's design brilliance was the "ballast" which places around 50% of its weight right on on the TIP. As CF member "Spade" so openly disclosed earlier in this thread, this involves a lead core for part of it. It wouldn't be rocket science to slice up a Spade and map the cross-sectional composition. With the expired patent, the copy cats might have fun.



What interests me, though, is a better approach yet. I read somewhere that the Kiwi-rollbars on Rocna and Mantus reduce this important ratio to more like 30%. If the balance is so important, why shouldn't such a rollbar be something like carbon fiber?
......

The roll bar was added for two purposes. One to add weight to the tip, much like the lead in the Spade, just not as effectively. Second to stop the anchor landing upside down.

[dreuge]

In short, go with a Vulcan anchor. It's a Spade killer.

When I decided to upgrade my ground tackle on my Landfall 38, I was strongly influenced by the YouTube anchor test compilation by SV Panope and by owner reviews, so I started planning on getting a 44lb Spade anchor. The big problem, as already pointed out, is the cost for a new Spade anchor. I ended up stumbling across and getting a similar design anchor, the Vulcan 44lb made by Rocna. It was a fairly new design at the time, but compared to the Spade, the cost of under $400 was less than half the cost of a new Spade.

I love the performance of my Vulcan. I have had this anchor for over 2 years now, and it has performed flawlessly. This anchor set better than any other I experienced on my own or other vessels. The worst point about the Vulcan is that it really, really sets, and can be an issue if one improperly retrieves by hand. I have experienced major blows while anchored with the Vulcan, and only thing that has happened is that I'm now getting better sleep.

Here is a link to ground tackle upgrade post for those interested:

S/V Johanna Rose: GroundTackle

Dreuge

[Paul Elliott]

Originally Posted by Paul L

The patent application requires the patent application to disclose the best mode of the claimed invention.

Of course many patents are for a device or implementation ("apparatus or method") that is itself only a small part of a complete system. My patents tended to be on clever implementations of certain functions in high-speed digital signal-processing applications, used in much larger and more complicated systems. The patent won't show you how to build that system, just that particular function. There were other patents that had a broader scope, but in my experience most are fairly narrow.

I suppose I should look at the Spade Anchor patents. These may effectively protect the entire anchor implementation. In any case, it doesn't change my argument.

[cyan]

Originally Posted by Spade Anchor

Ours is active. Our lawyers are bored if anyone wants to test it out. lol!

Hi Spade Anchor,
Just a curious fan of this anchor...
US08875536 looks to be expired, with US5934219A expiring any minute now.
Is this why your lawyers are bored?
(asking for a friend)

[KPowell]

I see plenty of used anchors for sale on our local craigslist.

[guyrj33]

Originally Posted by Mr B

Just change the measurements slightly, Patent and copyright are a non issue,

This is just flat out wrong!

[Epikur]

The story of my Anchor:

I bought a used 30' Colin Archer (...the only one Colin Archer has built in GRP...) in Norway in 2015. The boat hasn't been used much for sailing and had just some folding anchors in its anchor locker. Even the GRP lid of the locker had no hinges. It would have slid of in the first wave.
I bought a bruce anchor for 75 Euro because that's what most boats around had on their bow. Additionally 7m of chain and 80m rope.

The Norwegian Cruising Guide recommended a ROCNA anchor because of the Kelb covering most anchor places in Norway. The ROCNA/SPADE/MANTIS etc. anchors are really the best, but 400 Euro...

I'm member of a workshop club and we have steel cutting and welding equipment available. A sheet of 8mm steel was bought (1.5 by 2m, 289Euro) and I cut the pieces of my own spade anchor according to plans from a guy from the web. Making the cutter work and cutting the steel was three days of work. and cost 50 Euro.
I stick welded the pieces together (one day of work) and got a nice mild steel anchor. I delivered the thing for dip zinc galvanising (150 Euro + 5h of hassle).The result was a nice silver shiny two piece foldable spade anchor.

I send the anchor from Germany to my boat in Norway (80 Euro + 3h of hassle). It arrived fine, but having designed the size by good eye sight I realised that I had the perfect anchor for a boat double the size of mine. In case it goes over board it will be difficult to recover without a winch which I didn't have. Now it is well build into a cupboard and waits for a hurricane to hit Europe.

I anchored once in Shetland with my Bruce anchor and realised that it is completely useless.

I bought a 16kg CQR/Plough anchor via Ebay (100 Euro) and sent it to Orkney (80 Euro). I found a nice little manual winch on Ebay and bought 35m of 8mm chain on Orkney.

Conclusion:
I spent well over 800 Euro and a solid week of work for my anchor and ended with a Plough anchor.

I don't regret anything. I cut steel, I stick welded some nice seams and have now a god solid storm anchor in my cupboard.
But if you want a good anchor, the easiest and cheapest way is to just buy a modern ROCNA/SPADE/MANTIS etc.-anchor.