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Old 12-12-2018, 16:06   #1
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Extending length of anchor rode

I currently have 100 feet of 5/16 inch anchor chain with 100 feet of nylon line that together make up my anchor rode. I have been given an additional 100 feet of chain and would like to connect it to the other chain. There are numerous types of connectors available and I'm unclear about which style to use. I have a Lewmar windlass so there will be a periodic need for the connector to pass through the windlass gypsy. Any advice or suggestions would be appreciated.
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Old 12-12-2018, 17:16   #2
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Re: Extending length of anchor rode

Your only real option for going through a windlass smoothly is a "C-link" sometimes called a "connecting link." Crosby makes the ones that are usually considered best and most reliable. Avoid brand-less links from China. There are other ways to join, but they will need assistance with travel through a gypsy.

Properly made connecting links will be nearly as strong as the chain. The primary issue is that the galvanizing tends to flake off when the pins are peened, so they will need regular inspection and replacement when they begin to rust. They will certainly rust before the chain.

I am sure that there will be people who will jump in and say that such links are not to be trusted, but on all chain larger than about 1" comes only in 90 foot lengths (One "Shot" of chain). All very large yachts and ships use c-links, or something similar, in their anchor chain out of necessity.
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Old 12-12-2018, 17:33   #3
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Re: Extending length of anchor rode

Kenner joining shackles is what the big boats use of you can find a small enough one.
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Old 12-12-2018, 20:55   #4
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Re: Extending length of anchor rode

My horizontal windlass tolerates a twin-clevis link matching the chain size:



You can find good forged, galvinanized twin-clevis links in the ~US$10—15 range for the typical chain sizes we are talking about here.

I haven't used the C-links as I have always had very good success using a twin-clevis links. [But I do keep some C-Links on hand in case they are ever needed...]



As Bill mentioned, peening the 'rivets' removes the galvanizing so the riviets soon begin rusting away. Some CF members have reported finding the two halves loose on their chain once the rivets rust off over time. It has been suggested [IIRC Evans Starzinger tested this] that gluing the two halves together with 5200 helps mitigate the risk of them seperating.

Lets compare these two for strength:

Forged C-Links [matching chain size] are rated less than the chain WWL [up to G43 chain.]

When doing the math, remember these connecting links [forged C-Links and forged twin-clevises] are listed with a 4:1 safety factor; anchor chain [up to G43] for some reason is listed with a 3:1 safety factor. [Note for reference: G70 chain and above is back to a 4:1 safety factor...]

e.g., I use 5/16" G43 chain with a 3,900 lb WLL [Maximum (safe or suggested) working load; Working Load Limit]

With a 3:1 safety margin; 3,900 x 3 = 11,700lbs ultimate [breaking] strength. [nominal]

A 5/16" forged Crosby C-Link has a 4:1 safety margin and is listed at 1,950 lb WLL. [Ultimate nominal strength = 4 x 1950 = 7,800 lbs— vs. 11,700 for the chain. Definately the weak link for G4 chain...]

Now do the math for a 5/16" forged twin-clevis link: [4,700 lb WLL @ 4:1] and you will find it is much stronger than the sames size G43 chain.

Bottom line: if a twin-clevis link will work on your windlass, that is the stronger choice [i.e., not weaker than the chain it is joining...] for joining G4 anchor chain [Up to ~ 5/8" and under anyway... for now...]

Related: I also use a double-clevis to attach the rope anchor rode to the main anchor chain. Since my rope rode is only for emergencies, I splice the 8 plait dacron rope to a short piece of anchor chain [e.g., 2 ft] I then connect that short piece of chain to the bitter end of the main chain rode using a double-clevis. This saves me having to redo the rope-chain splice whenever I end-for-end the anchor chain. [This works for me because the rope-chain splice rarely— if ever— is put to use...]

In case this is useful.

Cheers! Bill
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Old 12-12-2018, 21:03   #5
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Re: Extending length of anchor rode

Quote:
Originally Posted by billknny View Post
Your only real option for going through a windlass smoothly is a "C-link" sometimes called a "connecting link." Crosby makes the ones that are usually considered best and most reliable. Avoid brand-less links from China. There are other ways to join, but they will need assistance with travel through a gypsy.

Properly made connecting links will be nearly as strong as the chain. The primary issue is that the galvanizing tends to flake off when the pins are peened, so they will need regular inspection and replacement when they begin to rust. They will certainly rust before the chain.

I am sure that there will be people who will jump in and say that such links are not to be trusted, but on all chain larger than about 1" comes only in 90 foot lengths (One "Shot" of chain). All very large yachts and ships use c-links, or something similar, in their anchor chain out of necessity.

Ships use stud link chain, and detachable links to connect the shots together.



https://www.google.com/search?q=ship...y3RZcw-cX0-CM:


source is navy, but looks like a regular detachable link to me. I will post a pic of one of ours maybe tonight. Not something I ever thought to take a picture of. Our chain is 83 link chain, i.e. 83 links make a shot. I believe we have 13 shots on each anchor, FWIW.



C links are fine for small boat chain as long as you remember you are losing about 25% of your breaking strength. If your chain is somewhat oversized for your boat then should be fine. Spray it with several coats of spray galvanizing and it will last a little longer. It is NOTHING like hot galvanizing, but better than nothing.
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Old 12-12-2018, 21:04   #6
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Re: Extending length of anchor rode

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Originally Posted by rbk View Post
Kenner joining shackles is what the big boats use of you can find a small enough one.
I think you mean "Kenter" joining shackles. No such thing in 5/16" chain that I have ever seen.
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Old 13-12-2018, 04:17   #7
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Re: Extending length of anchor rode

Kenter Joining Links ➥ https://wachain.com/kenter-joining-links/

Crosby® 335 Galvanized “Missing Link” ➥ https://www.thecrosbygroup.com/catal...acement-links/

Acco Grade 30 Oval Connecting Links (Pg 6) ➥ https://bridon.co.nz/uploads/catalog...ccessories.pdf
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Old 13-12-2018, 14:51   #8
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Re: Extending length of anchor rode

Quote:
Originally Posted by wrwakefield View Post
My horizontal windlass tolerates a twin-clevis link matching the chain size:

What make of windlass do you have? The double clevis rides properly in the wildcat in both the horizontal or vertical orientation, or do you have to make sure that it is horizontal?
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Old 13-12-2018, 16:09   #9
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Re: Extending length of anchor rode

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Originally Posted by GrowleyMonster View Post
What make of windlass do you have? The double clevis rides properly in the wildcat in both the horizontal or vertical orientation, or do you have to make sure that it is horizontal?
GM,

Your question makes me realize I didn't provide enough clarity- sorry about that...

I have a horizontal capstan windlass [Lighthouse 1501] with dual 5/16" ISO chain gypsies. [Here is that project— with photos and links— if you are interested...]

What I intended to say is I only have experience with the twin-clevis chain links on my horizontal windlass. [~90° chain wrap.]

If I understand your question correctly, you are asking if the twin-clevis needs to be oriented horizontally in order to feed through the horizontal wildcat. I have tested it both ways and orientation of the twin-clevis doesn't seem to matter. It is worth noting that the twin-clevis link doesn't quite nest into the wildcat like a link of chain does, but it does well enough not to cause the chain to skip/jump- including under load. [However, I will add further link orientation testing to my list next time I have to end-for-end the chain on the docks. The windlass has a manual kedging socket (>10k lbs pull) so I can easily/safely perform some higher load tests...]

You didn't ask, but to close the thought and extend this question to using a vertical windlass: I have no experience, and have not tested it. However, since the chain wrap is typically greater on a vertical windlass [compared to a horizontal windlass] I would speculate that it would work just as well— if not even better than a horizontal capstan. [i.e., more links to grip, ostensibly further reducing the risk of the chain slipping/jumping.]

It is certainly a cheap experiment to try on any windlass, and I believe some forged twin-clevis links [and C-Links] are handy to have in the cruiser's groundtackle tool box at any rate...

Please let me know if I misunderstood.

Cheers! Bill
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Old 13-12-2018, 17:33   #10
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Re: Extending length of anchor rode

Quote:
Originally Posted by wrwakefield View Post
GM,

Your question makes me realize I didn't provide enough clarity- sorry about that...

I have a horizontal capstan windlass [Lighthouse 1501] with dual 5/16" ISO chain gypsies. [Here is that project— with photos and links— if you are interested...]

What I intended to say is I only have experience with the twin-clevis chain links on my horizontal windlass. [~90° chain wrap.]

If I understand your question correctly, you are asking if the twin-clevis needs to be oriented horizontally in order to feed through the horizontal wildcat. I have tested it both ways and orientation of the twin-clevis doesn't seem to matter. It is worth noting that the twin-clevis link doesn't quite nest into the wildcat like a link of chain does, but it does well enough not to cause the chain to skip/jump- including under load. [However, I will add further link orientation testing to my list next time I have to end-for-end the chain on the docks. The windlass has a manual kedging socket (>10k lbs pull) so I can easily/safely perform some higher load tests...]

You didn't ask, but to close the thought and extend this question to using a vertical windlass: I have no experience, and have not tested it. However, since the chain wrap is typically greater on a vertical windlass [compared to a horizontal windlass] I would speculate that it would work just as well— if not even better than a horizontal capstan. [i.e., more links to grip, ostensibly further reducing the risk of the chain slipping/jumping.]

It is certainly a cheap experiment to try on any windlass, and I believe some forged twin-clevis links [and C-Links] are handy to have in the cruiser's groundtackle tool box at any rate...

Please let me know if I misunderstood.

Cheers! Bill

Yeah I meant the chain orientation to the wildcat, not vertical windlass. I am fitting out a Bruce Roberts 44 and ordered a Lofrans Kobra windlass 12v with manual capability, horizontal, for 3/8" G40 chain. Haven't ordered the chain yet as I am on a ship and won't be home until Feb. Thinking about getting a whole barrel, feeding what fits into the chain locker, and selling the rest. I am not sure how much will fit comfortably. There has never been any chain on the boat. Built in 79 but never properly fitted out, apart from engine and mast/sails/rigging. Anyway I was thinking at one time about trying these:
https://www.westechrigging.com/crosby-a-336-038.html
and having a couple on hand for if I want to add more chain on, and starting with 200', about a half barrel. I went ahead and ordered a couple connectors and I will try them when I get home, and try the double clevis connectors, too. It would be really sweet if I could get all 400' on, but just having 300' would make me quite happy. But even with a whole unbroken barrel of chain, eventually I would want to cut some worn and rusty chain off, and add some new on. So having tried and verified connectors onboard would be a good thing.
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Old 13-12-2018, 19:19   #11
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Re: Extending length of anchor rode

Forget the joining links. Cross cut the end links, slide them together and weld where you have cross cut. If you cross cut the ends of the links any corrosion products wear off as the chain works and you won't have a rust problem. Use low hydrogen welding rods. 100% reliable and no interference with winch operation.
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Old 13-12-2018, 20:28   #12
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Re: Extending length of anchor rode

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Forget the joining links. Cross cut the end links, slide them together and weld where you have cross cut. If you cross cut the ends of the links any corrosion products wear off as the chain works and you won't have a rust problem. Use low hydrogen welding rods. 100% reliable and no interference with winch operation.

For non heat treated chain that is excellent advice. However, welding will anneal or partially anneal the link, and probably the one above and below the welded link. It would be very difficult to heat that link to critical, then quench it, without negatively affecting other links, I am thinking. So I would have my doubts about this, on high test chain. Is there a metallurgist in the house?
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Old 13-12-2018, 22:41   #13
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Re: Extending length of anchor rode

Quote:
Originally Posted by wrwakefield View Post
My horizontal windlass tolerates a twin-clevis link matching the chain size:



You can find good forged, galvinanized twin-clevis links in the ~US$10—15 range for the typical chain sizes we are talking about here.

I haven't used the C-links as I have always had very good success using a twin-clevis links. [But I do keep some C-Links on hand in case they are ever needed...]



As Bill mentioned, peening the 'rivets' removes the galvanizing so the riviets soon begin rusting away. Some CF members have reported finding the two halves loose on their chain once the rivets rust off over time. It has been suggested [IIRC Evans Starzinger tested this] that gluing the two halves together with 5200 helps mitigate the risk of them seperating.

Lets compare these two for strength:

Forged C-Links [matching chain size] are rated less than the chain WWL [up to G43 chain.]

When doing the math, remember these connecting links [forged C-Links and forged twin-clevises] are listed with a 4:1 safety factor; anchor chain [up to G43] for some reason is listed with a 3:1 safety factor. [Note for reference: G70 chain and above is back to a 4:1 safety factor...]

e.g., I use 5/16" G43 chain with a 3,900 lb WLL [Maximum (safe or suggested) working load; Working Load Limit]

With a 3:1 safety margin; 3,900 x 3 = 11,700lbs ultimate [breaking] strength. [nominal]

A 5/16" forged Crosby C-Link has a 4:1 safety margin and is listed at 1,950 lb WLL. [Ultimate nominal strength = 4 x 1950 = 7,800 lbs— vs. 11,700 for the chain. Definately the weak link for G4 chain...]

Now do the math for a 5/16" forged twin-clevis link: [4,700 lb WLL @ 4:1] and you will find it is much stronger than the sames size G43 chain.

Bottom line: if a twin-clevis link will work on your windlass, that is the stronger choice [i.e., not weaker than the chain it is joining...] for joining G4 anchor chain [Up to ~ 5/8" and under anyway... for now...]

Related: I also use a double-clevis to attach the rope anchor rode to the main anchor chain. Since my rope rode is only for emergencies, I splice the 8 plait dacron rope to a short piece of anchor chain [e.g., 2 ft] I then connect that short piece of chain to the bitter end of the main chain rode using a double-clevis. This saves me having to redo the rope-chain splice whenever I end-for-end the anchor chain. [This works for me because the rope-chain splice rarely— if ever— is put to use...]

In case this is useful.

Cheers! Bill
Bill,

What brand/model 8 plait dacron do you have? I've been trying to find some for exactly the reason you are using it.

Ronnie
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Old 14-12-2018, 20:22   #14
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Re: Extending length of anchor rode

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrowleyMonster View Post
Yeah I meant the chain orientation to the wildcat, not vertical windlass. I am fitting out a Bruce Roberts 44 and ordered a Lofrans Kobra windlass 12v with manual capability, horizontal, for 3/8" G40 chain. Haven't ordered the chain yet as I am on a ship and won't be home until Feb. Thinking about getting a whole barrel, feeding what fits into the chain locker, and selling the rest. I am not sure how much will fit comfortably. There has never been any chain on the boat. Built in 79 but never properly fitted out, apart from engine and mast/sails/rigging. Anyway I was thinking at one time about trying these:
https://www.westechrigging.com/crosby-a-336-038.html
and having a couple on hand for if I want to add more chain on, and starting with 200', about a half barrel. I went ahead and ordered a couple connectors and I will try them when I get home, and try the double clevis connectors, too. It would be really sweet if I could get all 400' on, but just having 300' would make me quite happy. But even with a whole unbroken barrel of chain, eventually I would want to cut some worn and rusty chain off, and add some new on. So having tried and verified connectors onboard would be a good thing.
GM,

It sounds like you have a good ground tackle system planned.

The couplings you linked are also very strong [I've seen G100 versions] and about the only choice for G70 chain. I have yet to find any with hot dip galvanizing [so far anyway...] so an alternative anti-corrosion method must be used on this type of chain coupling.

RE: How much chain fits... I figured I could get close to a barrel in my split anchor locker [dividing it between two bowers.] I just placed the barrel on the dock and nosed the bow over it and started pulling chain in and letting it free-fall.



Not quite enough would fit free-falling, so I pulled it back into the barrel and did it again, this time flaking the chain as it came into the locker.



Bingo. The entire 550 ft length of 5/15" G43 chain fit easily. [This is all described in detail- with photos- in my anchor windlass write-up.]

I was lucky enough to be in at a marina with a chain source close by. I walked the 600+ lb barrel of chain about 3 blocks to the marina, then down the ramp to the boat [during high tide] using the barrel dolly [with hand brakes...] they loaned me. Sweet. All I had left was an empty barrel.

Good luck packing in the amount of chain you are most comfortable with.

Cheers! Bill
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Old 14-12-2018, 20:41   #15
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Re: Extending length of anchor rode

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Originally Posted by SailRedemption View Post
Bill,

What brand/model 8 plait dacron do you have? I've been trying to find some for exactly the reason you are using it.

Ronnie
Hi Ronnie,

I checked my ground tackle inventory page for the link and see I misremembered what I purchased: it is actually 12 strand polyester [5/8 in [16mm] Sampson Tenex [It sure looks like 8 plait when I look at it though...] Easy to splice...

I bought a 600 ft. spool from a commercial fishing chandlery. [Typically much cheaper than yacht chandleries... Although WM does do price matching these days...]

I hope this is helpful for you.

Cheers! Bill
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