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Old 19-07-2010, 23:07   #61
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The hoop in a Manson is slightly higher than the Rocna hoop, for equal weight. This is probably because the Manson shank is also higher (to accommodate that marketing slot people should never use) and the hoop needs to be higher to keep it from resting upside-down along the top of the shank.
When the hoop is higher than it needs to be and the shank is taller, the center of weight of the anchor is shifted outward away from the tip (drastically in this case - see below). The weight-on-tip of the Rocna is around 30-33%, and Manson's copy ranges inconsistently from 17-23%.

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IMHO, that extra piece above the slot adds shank strength, as the Manson shank without the extra piece is about the same height as the Rocna.
They try to add it back by making the shank taller, which detracts from tip-weight again. In any case you are not considering the damage to the supposedly high tensile steel that occurs when you run two extra gas cuts up and down the shank to cut a slot.

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Manson is very significantly sharper. I suspect the Manson can penetrate more easily than the Rocna in a hard-packed bottom or grass/weed.
They make it sharper to try to compensate for the serious reduction in tip-weight as above. All independent testing suggests the results are less than reliable, but in either case why do you think the Rocna is not designed as sharp in the first place; do you not think it would be done if it was a sensible idea?
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Old 20-07-2010, 01:31   #62
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Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
More common spelling is hooley - refers to stormy wind conditions. "it's blowing a hooley out there" not only reports on the weather conditions but also that not pleasant.

Origins are unclear
hooley = holigan = hurricane
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Old 20-07-2010, 08:03   #63
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snip
They try to add it back by making the shank taller, which detracts from tip-weight again. In any case you are not considering the damage to the supposedly high tensile steel that occurs when you run two extra gas cuts up and down the shank to cut a slot.
snip
Steel quality (quality in general) is my biggest concern now that Rocna is made in China. The reputation of Chinese steel products is that it is at-best inconsistent, and unfortunately for consumers -- only a metallurgist can tell the difference. All else equal I would choose a NZ-AU-Canada-US-EU product over a Chinese one.

As for your comment about tip weight, both Manson and Rocna seem to set with the tip down every time. It's the hoop that seems to limit deeper penetration, whereas in the Spade it's the thickness of the triangular-wedge weighted tip that inhibits penetration. The hoop also interferes with many sprits. I think the holy grail might be an anchor without the hoop or weighted tip that has a thin/sharp spoon-shaped blade and sets in a stable position. Is Raya out of business?
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Old 20-07-2010, 08:12   #64
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Steel quality (quality in general) is my biggest concern now that Rocna is made in China.
I sort of thought that the lifetime warranty mitigates concerns like that.

Craig, could you address that? I'm not really sure where mine was made - I got it through West Marine in July 2009.
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Old 20-07-2010, 08:27   #65
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I sort of thought that the lifetime warranty mitigates concerns like that.

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They warranty the anchor, not your boat!
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Old 20-07-2010, 08:51   #66
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What do you want me to address, it has been addressed a number of times before. The quality of Chinese Rocna anchors is better than the old NZ or Canadian ones. The steel is to a higher grade, the galvanizing is an improvement, and detailing/finishing is better.

You need to be worried not about Chinese skill or capabilities (unless your perspective is w.r.t. competing with China), but rather the western importers and resellers who order products to the lowest specs based purely on pricing (and the consumers that demand them).
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Old 20-07-2010, 08:54   #67
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As for your comment about tip weight, both Manson and Rocna seem to set with the tip down every time.
Tip weight affects setting ability. Hence why Manson feel the need to heavily sharpen their tip, to the benefit of short term performance and impressing naive shoppers and the detriment of long term strength and durability.
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Old 20-07-2010, 09:00   #68
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What do you want me to address...
Could you confirm that Rocna anchors include a lifetime warranty for manufacturing defects? Could you confirm that a steel problem created because of Chinese "steel quality" and "quality in general" would be considered a manufacturing defect and thereby covered by the lifetime warranty with a product replacement.

Finally, could you confirm that Rocna anchors sold by West Marine and labeled as Rocna including all materials provided by Rocna are covered by this lifetime warranty?
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Old 20-07-2010, 09:25   #69
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Of course, yes to all.
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Old 20-07-2010, 10:11   #70
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I recently lost my Manson -S and all chain rode it was a great anchor and I would buy it again, but I will consider the Ronca-whats the difference in the price of a Ronca vs Manson? the Manson 60lb is about $600 what would I pay for the Ronca Galvanized Supreme Anchor
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Old 20-07-2010, 10:42   #71
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Dragging in weeds

Last week I was at anchor in 35 knots and started to drag. To add insult to injury a shackle on my snubber snapped. I had the chain fixed to a cleat as well as snubbed so the force wasn't put on the windlass but it scared the spit out of me though. Pulled up an anchor full of weeds. I had about 40 meters of 3/8 chain out. Moved across the channel to another anchorage found good holding and put out 50 meters and was fine. I've since built another snubber - much stronger then the previous which came with the boat. I guess the fact I had backed up the snubber by tying the chain off as well was a good sign I didn''t trust the snubber to begin with!When the winds were blowing 25 knots I had the sense the tackle wasn't holding and really should have packed up the and gone to another anchorage. Heavy weeds can give the impression of being securely anchored I guess - especially with chain weight helping.
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Old 20-07-2010, 11:03   #72
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Our Tiki 30 sat to her 10kg Rocna very well in Islamorada for 3 weeks and then one day in a 40 knot wind she moved. This is an area of heavy weed. It did reset however. It is frequently difficult to retrieve manually because it has buried so deep. David
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Old 20-07-2010, 13:03   #73
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You definitely need a CQR.

It has to be a 100-pounder and welded well to the cold water tap in your garage. Snubber not required.

;-)))
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Old 20-07-2010, 19:08   #74
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Of course, yes to all.

What about the boat?

Dumb question I know.
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Old 27-07-2010, 18:12   #75
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ROCNA!!! ROCNA!!! RAH!! RAH!! RAH!!

Bull stuff! I was thrilled when I came across this thread. For a while it seemed that I should rent out my wife to obtain the ridiculous number of US bucks needed to purchase a Rocna. Heck, everybody should get $crewed!

No, I don't own a sailboat...........anymore that is. I currently own a 40' Silverton aftcabin completely enclosed in canvas so in some ways, I guess I do have a sailbaot of sorts.

First I want to address ell grass here in Massachusetts. In past years I used a 33# Bruce and later moved to a 44# Bruce. Those anchors held my 30' Hunter sailboat like a death grip. That is until we started to find large quantities of ell grass growing around here. The 44# Bruce would pick up about 100#s of grass and lost its reliability. It just would not hold my 25K+#s Silverton. So I graduated to a 55# Delta.

That turned out to be a dog also but maybe the Captain had something to do with the problems. Held great in sand and grass but not so good in soft mud. Anyway, I had great apprehensions that caused lost sleep at anchor. Soooo I thought about the Manson or Rocan along with the a few other anchors including the SuperMax. I never found a harsh word written about the Rocna or Manson..... but the cost!!! Looked unreal but it was certainly real money they wanted. The Rocna remined me of an old Volkswagon I owned, everybody wanted one because it supposedly answered all reliability issued ever invented my auto manufacturers. Yes, I got sucked into purchasing one of those pigs along with many others. I still have a broken piston from that pig sitting on my desk. Now the Rocna is joining the large group of popular anchors that lack guaranteed holding capability. What is the world coming to???

Back to my Delta choice. I selected and purchased today a used 88# Delta because of its size! Heck, the thing is almost the same size as one of my earlier mushroom moorings. I would have purchased a new 88# Delta before I would consider purchasing an over priced Rocna.

My boat has a 24vdc powered Maxwell HWC2200 windlass along with almost 200' of 5/16 HT chain. I am not at all concerned about retrieving a heavy anchor.

I will revisit this site later and share holding victories or horror stories with the Delta but at this time, I believe I made the right choice. Just go bigger, that usually works with most anchors!!!

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