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Old 21-10-2021, 09:53   #1
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Docking cleats installation on concrete seawall, wedge anchors or epoxy or both?

Hello,
what is the proper way to install the docking cleats on the seawall? Using wedge anchors or epoxy? Neither or both?

My boat is 27 feet long, Plan to use 10" S-cleats. The concrete appears to be in good shape, about 12" thick and drilling through does not appear to be an option .

Thank you
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Old 21-10-2021, 10:31   #2
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Docking cleats installation on concrete seawall, wedge anchors or epoxy or both?

Ive used both with good results. But only stainless wedge anchors if going that route. Removal is non trivial. The wedge anchors will result in varying stud heights where the epoxy is a bit more deterministic, at least if you lightly assemble while wet.
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Old 21-10-2021, 10:32   #3
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Re: Docking cleats installation on concrete seawall, wedge anchors or epoxy or both?

Quote:
Originally Posted by facciatosta View Post
Hello,
what is the proper way to install the docking cleats on the seawall? Using wedge anchors or epoxy? Neither or both?

My boat is 27 feet long, Plan to use 10" S-cleats. The concrete appears to be in good shape, about 12" thick and drilling through does not appear to be an option .

Thank you

No responses. Interesting.


Rock climbers have a good bit of experience with this, including seaside applications. If there is any question about the soundness of the concrete, glue-in is probably the better choice, but so long as the bolts are at least 3/8" it probably won't matter, given the size of the boat (3/8" is about 5000 pounds in shear, a little less with a cleat). 316 stainless is preferred.



Just make sure the holes are deep enough and clean.
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Old 21-10-2021, 11:21   #4
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Re: Docking cleats installation on concrete seawall, wedge anchors or epoxy or both?

Make sure you are well away from the edge so that good strength is developed. If the lines will necessarily hang down and be subject to chafe on the cement maybe have SS deck under the cleat and over the concrete.
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Old 21-10-2021, 12:24   #5
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Re: Docking cleats installation on concrete seawall, wedge anchors or epoxy or both?

The problem with a wedge anchor is, as you crank on it the bolt stands proud. How would that work with a line around a cleat?

I'd probably use VERY long bolts and anchoring cement/anchoring adhesive.
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Old 22-10-2021, 03:26   #6
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Re: Docking cleats installation on concrete seawall, wedge anchors or epoxy or both?

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The problem with a wedge anchor is, as you crank on it the bolt stands proud. How would that work with a line around a cleat?

I'd probably use VERY long bolts and anchoring cement/anchoring adhesive.
He could always grind the heads back down.

Also, there are "5-piece" wedge bolts that won't come up proud: the wedge is sucked up from the bottom into an expanding sleeve and the head is just a plain hex.

But since it's concrete, not granite, I'd be more comfortable with glue-ins than with wedge bolts. No telling the quality of the concrete.
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Old 22-10-2021, 04:05   #7
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Re: Docking cleats installation on concrete seawall, wedge anchors or epoxy or both?

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Originally Posted by Shrew View Post
The problem with a wedge anchor is, as you crank on it the bolt stands proud. How would that work with a line around a cleat? ...
You could use a Machine Screw Anchor ('Tampin'), which is an anchoring device, usually made of lead, consisting of an internally threaded conical expander, designed with ribs or knurls to prevent it from turning during expansion, and an expansion sleeve, which slips over the expander. A conventional machine screw, or bolt, is threaded into the Tampin.
https://www.concretefasteners.com/ho...screw-anchors/


☜ I'd use a Screw, but Bolt shown


A properly installed epoxied insert fastener, will break the concrete, before the adhesive lets go.
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Old 22-10-2021, 08:39   #8
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Re: Docking cleats installation on concrete seawall, wedge anchors or epoxy or both?

Ive had good success with Tap-Con screws for mounting things in concrete and/or brick. Not a boat cleat, but still. They come on a variety of sizes.
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Old 22-10-2021, 08:51   #9
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Re: Docking cleats installation on concrete seawall, wedge anchors or epoxy or both?

https://www.hilti.com/c/CLS_FASTENER_7135
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Old 22-10-2021, 08:55   #10
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Re: Docking cleats installation on concrete seawall, wedge anchors or epoxy or both?

Keep in mind, the OP is mounting a 10 S cleat. These take 1/2 fasteners.
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Old 22-10-2021, 10:54   #11
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Re: Docking cleats installation on concrete seawall, wedge anchors or epoxy or both?

Expansion bolts, aka molly's as shown be Gordy. Epoxy only connects to the surface which can pull away.
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Old 22-10-2021, 12:52   #12
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Re: Docking cleats installation on concrete seawall, wedge anchors or epoxy or both?

Chemset anchoring compound is great stuff. Used in mining to hold big machinery. Wouldn't get out of bed for the weight of your boat and associated stresses
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Old 22-10-2021, 13:02   #13
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Re: Docking cleats installation on concrete seawall, wedge anchors or epoxy or both?

looks like Sika makes a 2 part anchoring adhesive as well. but it would be permanent for sure.
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Old 22-10-2021, 13:20   #14
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Re: Docking cleats installation on concrete seawall, wedge anchors or epoxy or both?

Epoxy with all thread. Hilti, Quickcrete etc. Use SS all thread and cut flush with angle grinder once it sets up. This is pretty much standard practice these days and meets ASCE code requirements.


Tip: Scarf cut an angle on your all thread so it doesn't counter extrude the epoxy. Otherwise you have to screw them in.
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Old 22-10-2021, 13:45   #15
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Re: Docking cleats installation on concrete seawall, wedge anchors or epoxy or both?

I would set in a bronze, stainless or just a plain steel tube internally threaded with the bottom end sealed by a crimp or a screw-in plug. The outside of the tube is ribbed, either by welding or brazing rings or winding and tacking heavy wire to it. One can buy the specific item ready made, if one prefers.

One heats up SULPHUR until it is molten, then warms up the concrete using an oxy torch or a heated metal rod, then pour in the molten sulphur and quickly set in your internally threaded bronze tube.

That is how we mounted engines on concrete, or gate hinges in rock. We set the mount brackets using sulphur, and then waxed the threads on the bolt using Windsor's joint and thread sealing compound. I never saw one come loose, we even mounted a rock crusher in this way--and they vibrate heavily with every revolution.

Epoxy anchors are quicker and possibly cheaper, but sulphur is forever.

Someone suggested an apron to prevent chafing--an excellent idea.

I used CHAIN on the ends of my mooring lines, reaching well out over the water, and padlocked at the mooring bollard. I never had my boat set adrift all the time I left it, sometimes for weeks at a time. I also found that rat baffles fix easily to chain leaders, so they do not even get to reach the ropes to chew on them.
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