Do I need a Swivel on my Anchor?

[GrahamHO]

[QUOTE=CruisingKitty;1887569]We are not proponents of swivels having seen too many failures.
If you use any other swivel, don't connect it directly to the anchor. Use a piece of chain between the anchor and the swivel to reduce lateral force.

Thanks CruisingKitty, a length of chain as you suggest would have solved my swivel jamming in the slotted anchor hole (I previously reported). Possibly helps the anchor better align to the roller on retrieval?

I might take my swivel out of the locker and try again with a length of chain.

Yes definitely use blue loctite on a swivel in my opinion. Red is stronger but harder to undo. Blue is strong enough and also protects the threads from corrosion.
I always use blue loctite on the anchor shackle.

[four winds]

Do my eyes deceive me? No, that really is a snap shackle at the bottom of the picture.

Maybe using a spare halyard as anchor line?

That's all kinds of wrong.

[model 10]

No, I think he has it lashed down.

[four winds]

Originally Posted by Guy

No, I think he has it lashed down.

OK, didn't think of that. Can't see rode attached though. If so I'd find a better lashing method.

Edit....looking again, maybe I do see a chain link under the shackle.

[Jon Eisberg]

Originally Posted by davefrediam

Never mind a swivel, I'd be happy just to find a stronger than the chain method of connecting my anchor shackle to the chain (preferably in galvanised steel rather than stainless). Kong seems to be the main one available here in the UK (can't find ultra) but my beef with the Kong connector is that it is for 8mm to 12mm chain, so if the pin is small enough to fit 8mm chain how on earth can it be strong enough for 12mm!!! I see you can get a larger model for 12mm chain but that one won't fit my 10mm chain. I paid extra for the stronger higher spec Gwhatever chain which has a SWL of around 3 to 4 thousand KG. Even the larger Kong only has a SWL of 3000KG!

Disclaimer: I am by no means a metallurgist - not even close... ;-)

But have you considered going with titanium?

Fitting a shackle to match the strength of chain can definitely be a problem with High Test chain, without resorting to an oversize link being added during manufacture... Here in the States, Crosby makes some galvanized shackles suitable for HT, but they can be surprisingly difficult to find... Hamilton Marine in Maine was one source, last time I bothered to look...

I switched to a titanium bow shackle about 10 years ago... So far, so good ;-)

Beautifully crafted, and with the locking detents for the pin, I just mouse it with a circular ring... Which is convenient for me, as I often disconnect my rode from the anchor to be able to cap the hawse pipe, whenever I know I might be taking water on deck...

Damn thing practically looks as new as the day I bought it... Titan says the SWL of this shackle is roughly double that of my 1/4" HT chain...

Over the years, I have heard some express doubts of the suitability of titanium for such an application, saying the material is too "brittle", or similar... All I can say is, it's been fine for me, so far, and I've never had to remove an end link due to the sort of wear or corrosion that some 'rougher' galvanized pins can create... And, due to its virtual immunity to corrosion, titanium could be a good choice for anyone using a aluminum Fortress, or Spade...

[GrahamHO]

Originally Posted by four winds

Do my eyes deceive me? No, that really is a snap shackle at the bottom of the picture.

Maybe using a spare halyard as anchor line?

That's all kinds of wrong.

Looks like a good idea to me. Obviously to restrain the anchor on the foredeck or roller with a line. A snap shackle is easy to clip on / off. I might do that myself.

That's a good idea of yours four winds to use a halyard as a spare anchor line if you ever need to cut loose your anchor warp. Just take it off the mast first.

Reminds me of the sailor here years ago who tied the bouy rope for his swing mooring to the pulpit. Then the storm came. Then the mooring hook slipped out. Then the yacht was moored by the bouy rope to the pulpit. Then the pulpit pulled off with the jib halyard and the spinnaker halyard clipped on to it. Then the yacht was moored by the halyards to the top of the mast.....Then the yacht capsized and sank. A cunning way of preventing the yacht being dashed to pieces on the rock wall.

[four winds]

Well great, now I will be remembered as the guy saying a spare halyard makes a good alternative anchor line. :-)

Not exactly what I was going for.

I have managed to anchor off my prop shaft strut once though. Wouldn't recommend that either.

[REsCat]

Originally Posted by four winds

Well great, now I will be remembered as the guy saying a spare halyard makes a good alternative anchor line. :-)

Not exactly what I was going for.

I have managed to anchor off my prop shaft strut once though. Wouldn't recommend that either.

Humility is sometimes a rare and much needed quality for the posters on CF.

Bob

[sy_gilana]

To answer the OP...naaah you don't.

[davefrediam]

Hi thanks for the Titanium idea but I have some reservations. My background is aircraft engineering so i have some experience of Titanium and love the material. If I could afford it I would have a yacht made entirely from it! It is not brittle as some have suggested to you and in the aircraft world is generally supplied in the annealed state and is far more flexible than aircraft Aluminium alloys without heat treating. It's salt water corrosion resistance is superb (about as good as it gets). However it is not stronger than steel (they are roughly equivalent) though of course it is much lighter and the main constraint on the shackle strength I can fit is the size of the pin I can fit through the chain link not it's weight.
Also the reason I would prefer galvanised steel to stainless is it's corrosive effect on my expensive chain, being regularly dipped in a corrosive salt solution and electrically connected to the chain. I'd be interested to know if it has shortened the life of your chains galvanising.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by davefrediam

Also the reason I would prefer galvanised steel to stainless is it's corrosive effect on my expensive chain, .

just another one of those boating myths really

[GrahamHO]

Originally Posted by four winds

Well great, now I will be remembered as the guy saying a spare halyard makes a good alternative anchor line. :-)

Not exactly what I was going for.

I have managed to anchor off my prop shaft strut once though. Wouldn't recommend that either.

Yeah, four winds, we've done the anchor off the sail drive leg too. Jet lagged back from a Toronto winter to an Auckland summer we couldn't get in the boat quickly enough and sailed down to a sheltered bay the same day. It was blowing hard but we decided to motor back out to the start of the white water and go fishing. I was paying out the anchor warp and it came up to meet me. The cell phone had rung and my wife went inside to answer it and had knocked the throttle. Warp tangled in the propellor and we were anchored the wrong way around. We did escape OK but too long a tale to tell.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by Jon Eisberg

And, due to its virtual immunity to corrosion, titanium could be a good choice for anyone using a aluminum Fortress, or Spade...

Generally I think the high tensile galvanised shackles are the best choice such as the Crosby G-209A, but as you say Titanium is worth considering.

Whichard make some suitable titanium shackles. They are weaker than the same companies stainless HR shackles but there is some concern about using (especially) HR stainless for prolonged periods underwater.

However I would not recommend a titanium shackle with an aluminium anchor. The two metals are very different on the galvanic scale and it is the expensive aluminium anchor that will corrode. Titanium forms an oxide layer that reduces the electrical contact making the situation not as bad as it might appear but the aluminiums used in anchor shanks are generally from the 6 or even 7 series which is not as corrosion resistant as the 5 series to begin with. (Spade don't specify what grade of aluminium they use and this may be one of the marine grade 5 series)

A galvanised shackle is a better choice. It will corrode in preference to the anchor attachment point.

[colemj]

We have a stainless connector to our galvanized chain and galvanized anchor. We are anchored pretty much all the time. In the past 7 yrs of cruising, we have had no galvanic issues at all. Stainless and zinc are pretty far apart in the galvanic scale and neither the anchor nor the chain show any effects from having the stainless connected to them.

I'm with sailorboy1 on the myth part - for practical reasons, not textbook ones.

Mark

[ddavis4464]

You only need one if you want to use a windlass or don't care about the chain being knoted up. The old galvanized swivels from the hardware story worked fine for me. Been through a couple of blows after twenty odd years. Use the largest one that will fit into your chain. check them periodically when you do your routine maintenance. Replace every few years when you see wear. I don't tend to buy the most expensive or fanciest item on the shelve, just the one that does the job.

Oh, you don't need one if you only have rope rode with a few feet of tail. But then you are not cruising either... because you would be on the beach after the first thunderstorm went through.

Good Luck
Danny