Danforth type anchor question

[Don C L]

Yes I have buried my Danforths fairly deep on occasion and then they need some fairly GENTLE coaxing (lifting) to get them up. It may take a few minutes for them to slowly release, especially if it is more like mud or fine sand. I am thinking MAYBE a little resistance to a really deep burial may be a good thing!

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Yes I have buried my Danforths fairly deep on occasion and then they need some fairly GENTLE coaxing (lifting) to get them up. It may take a few minutes for them to slowly release, especially if it is more like mud or fine sand. I am thinking MAYBE a little resistance to a really deep burial may be a good thing!

It's that old conflict: do you want the anchor to come up easily, or do you want it to stay stuck?

Actually, you have a legitimate point. Even Fortress mentions difficulty in retrieval after heavy loading. It is one of the reasons that we use other styles of anchors for our bower hook... but have kept an old High Tensile Danforth as a stern/backup anchor for many years. They are unbeatable in such applications IMO (Fortress/genuine Danforth HT).

Jim

[UNCIVILIZED]

On the balls question, look at it this way. If they're such a perk, then why haven't Fortress, & a dozen other Danforth style anchor manufacturers added them as well?
Also, does anyone have some of the anchor test results of the Danforth styles which have the balls on them, as compared to the standard stocked variants?
That'll answer some of your setting & holding questions right there.

Call me a simpleton. But I'd rather have to spend an extra 2 min. retrieving my anchor, than having to deal with a 2am anchor dragging emergency any day.

Regarding putting a bit of "padding" on the ends of a Danforth. Other than what I've already listed, you could probably epoxy on some PVC with end caps. Sweat on some sections of heavy walled plastic hose. Or secure some other type of protective ends/covering, with some simple, but functional, decorative knotwork/lashing. And even go so far as to put such on top of the neoprene if you're paranoid about anchor scuffs.

And for dinghy trips, as well as general storage. Just make some end caps that are detachable, but which are easy to secure in place, say, via cords running between them, along the anchor's width.
IE; 2 tennis balls, filled with epoxy mixed with a bouyant filler, with holes milled in it to slip fit onto the anchor's ends. With 2 thick bungee cords run between the two of them. KISS

Plus, IMO, this whole fretting over the anchor's ends thing is overdone, when you compare it to the scratches which a Danforth's crown can inflict on things. Let alone the tips of it's flukes. Which commonly flip back & forth when handling said style of anchor.

[brianlara 3]

'civilised.
re the balls perk...these picks are marketed to owners of relatively L/weight racing vessels on which you could easily imagine the anchor and chain sitting on a f'wd bunk (or worse, seen it!). A nice safety feature for a pick that will in all prob never be used in anger would be to to protect everyone and every thing with 2 black balls. Esp considering that vessels of this type are likely to live on a berth or a mooring and so carry the bare statutory/insurance requirements and not a pound more.

[UNCIVILIZED]

Originally Posted by brianlara 3

'civilised.
re the balls perk...these picks are marketed to owners of relatively L/weight racing vessels on which you could easily imagine the anchor and chain sitting on a f'wd bunk (or worse, seen it!). A nice safety feature for a pick that will in all prob never be used in anger would be to to protect everyone and every thing with 2 black balls. Esp considering that vessels of this type are likely to live on a berth or a mooring and so carry the bare statutory/insurance requirements and not a pound more.

With many tens of thousands of nm of racing under my belt, I hear you.

[Jon Hacking]

The real question here is: Do those balls on the anchor inhibit anchor performance significantly?

This should not be difficult to answer. A truly scientific test would be to take 1 anchor with balls & an identical anchor without, bury both with the same force on the chain, & see how deep each goes.

But even a non-scientific approach would yield valuable results. Take your anchor (with the balls) out to a nice sandy bottom somewhere in, say 15'/5m. Anchor on it using at least 4.5:1 scope (bottom to BOW), setting it appropriately (& many cruisers don't do this part enough, IMHO), & then dive down to have a look at it. Did it bury beyond the balls? Go back & tug on it harder with the engine & re-examine. Does it bury better if you set it better? Maybe increase the scope to 5:1 & pull some more. Are the balls inhibiting it from burying? (OK, yes, I'm an engineer...)

There's lots of good advice on this thread, but the comments on the effect of those balls on anchor performance (including my own) are all just opinion. I'd be as interested in the results as anyone, as I think those balls are a good idea & I'm thinking of adding them to my own Fortress.

[Panope]

Balls added to a Fortress anchor stock will defeat the ability to disassemble the anchor unless the balls themselves are removable.

Steve

[brianlara 3]

The largest Manson anchor is a l
kedge weighing 1,300 kilograms & is 80 3/4 inches tall.
Mansons range is huge.
Clearly Mansons Racer was designed to protect the INTERIOR of a vessel, be it a 2 metre inflatable or a racing 50 footer where meeting statutory/insurance requirements are the O N L Y criteria.
Racers carry minimum chain and rope obviously and on my little 275 zodiac rib I couldn't care less that the balls impede 100% setting of the stern anchor. And on the dinks bower Fortress I fitted 2" balls.
And to add fuel to this unnecessarily scienbloodytific discussion, on both (dink) anchors I ground off the sharpness of the fluke tips to further protect my tubes.
Certain posters should now take up the "pounce" position.

[four winds]

The Fortress comes from the factory with red plastic caps on them. Just small caps with no substantial size.

Mine hasn't been in the water yet but suspect the caps would be missing after minimal use. Maybe they are supposed to be removed before deployment and are to prevent scratches topside only. Don't know.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by SpiritofGlenans

I reckon they are there to help keep the anchor on a horizontal plane, thereby encouraging the flukes to dig in sooner. They will not adversely affect the functioning of the anchor, as you can see that their diameter is a good deal less than the height of the central boss which raises the stock so that the points of the flukes assume a downward angle. By keeping the shaft horizontal they prevent it leaning to one side thereby inhibiting the efficient action of the flukes.

This.


I have a 10 kg Manson "Racer" I use as a stern anchor. Basically an aluminium danforth type. It has cylindrical aluminium bits welded on the stocks. Helps prevent the stock from burying and allowing the anchor to roll on it's side.


I don't believe it has anything to do with stowing the anchor. The points on the flukes are far more dangerous than the tips of the stocks would be.

[brianlara 3]

Panope, on my dinks bower Fortress I put threads on the stocks (?) and I drilled and tapped the balls (UNC naturally) to suit.
Because the balls are for protection and the pick is left assembled on the floor I glued 'em on.

[brianlara 3]

TRULY. Thank God for the intelligence of George Bernard Shaw.
Need you George...now!!

[Sailing Drummer]

Since I posted this question there have been many interesting responses and many more responses having nothing to do with the question. Currently I'm sitting on a mooring and won't be using/testing these until maybe Feb/March at the earliest. I wasn't sure if I should just go ahead and sell/give away these or keep them. My thinking leans toward keeping them for now. I've already sold the Bruce and I have no problems with the CQR except in very soft mud (i.e Spa Creek Annapolis).

For the record, one of them is about 35lbs and the other about 50lbs. There are no markings on them so I don't know the make. I know from previous boats the Danforths held great, but that was in the Chesapeake, not the Caribbean where I'll be headed soon. And please, we don't need any more comments about how bad or good the CQR is.

I'll keep checking on other posts in case someone has some definitive answers (which never seems to happen when talking about anchors). For now, thanks everyone for the input - even those of you responding to your thoughts on anchors/anchoring and not the question I asked. For the record, the balls will stay on since they were made that way. These are NOT removable balls unless, as mentioned in a previous post, taking a grinding wheel to them!

[brianlara 3]

Manson & Rocna entered a very competitive market in which a major player, for all the right reasons, was Fortress. Why would a very small Kiwi company take on a huge and successful compeditor with a low volume "not another Danforth!" ?? Why do it?
Simple. A Fortress MUST be the ideal thing for a pick which is very unlikely to ever be removed from the v berth, much less get wet &
Fortress picks can be pretty 'user unfriendly'.
Manson, presumably, thought that they could improve (on the handling/stowability/blood free) a Fortress by putting balls on the end of a pick which is highly likely to ever get wet.
If a racer/cruiser et al wanted to wet an anchor he/she wouldn't waste money on a balled anchor....unless its for a rib etc or if the user is repulsed by blood/pain/expletives etc.

[44'cruisingcat]

We use our stern anchor a lot.