Danforth type anchor question

[Juho]

My danforth has similar but much smaller plastic cups at the ends. They are very useful since they protect the sides of the boat when I lift the extra (stern) anchor up manually.

[tinkrman69]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

The ends of those anchors tend to ding up the boat as they are a bit ungainly to handle. That's all those balls are about. I doubt they will inhibit anything on that anchor. It has generally twice the holding power in sand of any other out there and doesn't rely on the crossbar being buried that much.

I agree with Cheechako. If you wanted to keep a backup keep the Bruce for rocky bottom with a trip line and find a garden for the CQR. Every boat that has drug into me....and that is quite a few.... was on a CQR. I've never drug on a Danforth and haven't seen anyone else either...with the exception of short scope, too small or not enough chain. The boat I have now had a CQR and Bruce on it. the CQR was on 200' of 3/8 chain and was deployed in 8' of water with about 140 foot of chain...'bout 10 to 1 scope. ( 6' of bow) it drug about 20 feet till it hit a coral head, on the Bahama bank, in a little more than 15 knot wind. Should have motored and fixed the goose neck at chub kay. I used an other one years ago in Boot key harbor it drug in a 30 knot blow too. won't find one in my possession again.

[charliehows]

danforths are under-rated but they can pick up rocks between the blades causing them to drag. I've never dragged my CQR yet but theres always some combination of irritants that could make it happen. Which anchor works best for you depends on your local conditions - usually what most boats in the vicinity are using is a pretty good indicator.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

The ends of those anchors tend to ding up the boat as they are a bit ungainly to handle. That's all those balls are about. I doubt they will inhibit anything on that anchor. It has generally twice the holding power in sand of any other out there and doesn't rely on the crossbar being buried that much.

As one who uses Danforths, I agree with Cheechako. I have short lengths of tubing on mine to protect the boat.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by tinkrman69

I agree with Cheechako. If you wanted to keep a backup keep the Bruce for rocky bottom with a trip line and find a garden for the CQR. Every boat that has drug into me....and that is quite a few.... was on a CQR. I've never drug on a Danforth and haven't seen anyone else either...with the exception of short scope, too small or not enough chain. The boat I have now had a CQR and Bruce on it. the CQR was on 200' of 3/8 chain and was deployed in 8' of water with about 140 foot of chain...'bout 10 to 1 scope. ( 6' of bow) it drug about 20 feet till it hit a coral head, on the Bahama bank, in a little more than 15 knot wind. Should have motored and fixed the goose neck at chub kay. I used an other one years ago in Boot key harbor it drug in a 30 knot blow too. won't find one in my possession again.

I had a similar experience with CQRs. Always wondered why there were so many of them.

[Jon Hacking]

In almost 20 years of anchoring on a CQR, I think we dragged perhaps 4 times. But I will admit that a CQR can sometimes take several tries to set properly. I set ours by bringing both engines up to ~2000rpm for 30 seconds without moving. The CQR can work well, but it takes some care.

I've had to anchor on a Danforth type (Fortress) as our primary anchor, but I wasn't wild about it. It holds very well, but it doesn't turn if (when) the wind shifts, & pulling it at right angles to the shank can bend it. It's vulnerable when anchoring anywhere near coral. If you try to recover it & it gets a fluke stuck under a rock or coral head, you can bend it very easily if, say, a swell lifts the boat a bit when you're on short scope.

Given the above, we finally bit the bullet & bought a Rocna (although I think a Manson Supreme or even a Bugel would be just as good). These "Dragon's Tooth with a Roll Bar" type anchors set (& re-set) very quickly, & they'll turn relatively easily, even when set deeply. Their main failing (besides horrendous prices) is that I'm not sure there's as much surface area for the weight, so we went up a size.

But I keep our Fortress as our storm anchor, for its awesome holding power.

For those interested, we talk about the different types of anchors & their strengths & weaknesses on our Anchors page, under our Cruising Info section.

[UNCIVILIZED]

They're removable... if you want them off of there badly enough. Try a 4" angle grinder, or something a touch bigger, like a 9"er with 36 grit discs
Just be sure not to cut off the stock(s) to which they're affixed.

And since you have 2 of those anchors, you can use one as a test case, to compare how such mod's affect anchoring performance.

Also, given what you'd get for the CQR if you sell it outright. Perhaps it's better to keep it, in some dark recess of the bilge. For; trade goods, or in case your neighbor only has 1 or 2 anchors, & is threatening to blow down onto you.


PS: You can always sign up for the Dec. 15 anchor give away.

[brianlara 3]

I'm sure that in the US you have Manson Supreme anchors.
The same company which makes Supremes also makes Manson Racer Anchor.
If you Google those 3 words you'll seem many images of new, off the shelf, Danforth (type) anchors, all with black balls fitted.
These anchors are coloured blue and hard anodized but unlike a Fortress, eg, they are not "angle adjustable". Just 30 degs so less than suitable for soft mud if that's your thing.
Many racers in OZ & New Zulland use these anchors to eliminate weight.
I'd say that if you called the Manson factory you be told that the balls aid in laying the hook flat, ready for burying. As Anne Cate suggested, probably they would resist burying too.
But possibly, and I won't buy into lengthy hypotheses re this, it seems to me that once a (quality, aluminium) Danforth, of any make has buried the full length of the flukes its job is done.
I use a Manson Racer as the stern hook on my ZODIAC 275 rib and I just love the way the balls protect my dink.
Me, I'd leave the balls on!
NO association with Manson Rocna Fortress or anyone selling .......anything.
cheers

[reed1v]

After 60 years of sailing experience here is my two cents. You need different anchors for different holding grounds. Duh. A true scottish plow is excellent for shingle bottoms. Danforth ideal for mud and muck. Bruce good for weedy bottoms. fisherman for rocks and coral bottoms. All will drag. We used kettles to keep the scope manageable and for storms.

[Don C L]

No Danforths won't turn, they weren't designed for that. But if you set two on a Bahamian mooring, or to hold bow and stern, they are a solid set up. If I think there are rocks around I will buoy the anchors with trip lines and they pull out backwards very easily if they are jammed. There have been some other threads that discussed kellets and their limitations since they aren't increasing scope if the rode is pulled taught.

[brianlara 3]

I've been on the hook for 6 years, probably re-anchoring every 3 days or so, usually in areas with at least 2nm fetch, variously sand to weedy to sloppy mud. Fortunately I have a 900 watt motor to lift the anchor, which when fully extended is 280 feet with 100 foot snubber controlled from the cockpit. Winds, normal for me are 10 to 30kn but 50-70 also happens. Depth typically 20 to 50 feet and I seem to have trouble NOT finding lee shores.
Rocnas and Supremes in OZ cost a relative fortune but I'd never be without one or the other. Presently Supreme front and rear.
Currently here a 35lb Supreme is 360US/235QUID...FWIW. These anchors are "horrendous prices" because the market clearly is prepared to pay for a good nights sleep.
We have a well known beach here called Bondi and if caught out in 60++ feet at 50++ knots my piddling 25lb Supreme w/ 5/16" chain will save me. I have regularly bet my life on it.
When Marine Rescue can get to me in 2 minutes I'll sell both my anchors and buy cqr's eg....
Isn't a pick more important than a motor or a mast?
What is it I've yet to learn....relative to the Tasman Sea that is. Honestly, open to all advice.
cheers. Brian.

[UNCIVILIZED]

An alternative to balls on the ends, is to fit/stitch or glue on cylindrical neoprene sleeves (with or without capped ends) instead. Or in a pinch, you could use thick leather, etc. instead.
I saw some neoprene ones on a Fortress anchor in a Youtube vid, though, it wasn't a Fortress product type video.
But such sleeves would pretty much perform the same function as the balls, in terms of preventing the anchor's ends from scratching things up, but without inhibiting it from burying deeply, when subject to a hard pull.

[brianlara 3]

My lovely little rib loves my Manson Racers balls.
But I think that if the balls are preventing that last 5% of bury then you were already in deep poop. Yep, leather sleeves, glued onto well polished metal with 2 pack PVC cement does sound better. Production costs etc...balls are easier

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by brianlara 3

My lovely little rib loves my Manson Racers balls.
But I think that if the balls are preventing that last 5% of bury then you were already in deep poop. Yep, leather sleeves, glued onto well polished metal with 2 pack PVC cement does sound better. Production costs etc...balls are easier

If you search out some of the Fortress posts here on CF,, you will see that they talk about not an additional 5%, but of t he anchor burying several feet down into softer substrates. They seem to set great store by that quality.

On other anchor threads, folks have worried about adding 1/8 " to the thickness of the stock on roll bar anchors, due to the increased resistance to penetration. To me, adding the very considerable cross sectional area of the balls is counter productive to anchor performance.

You are entitled to your opinion.

Jim

[brianlara 3]

Thanks, wasn't sure....