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Old 13-02-2019, 13:29   #1
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Arrow Converting Ideal Windlass to Up & Down???

Hello Everyone,

Looking for advice, not finding the answers online thus far:

We have just bought a 50 ft sailboat with an Ideal vertical Capstan style windlass with chain gypsy and the rode drum above that which looks just like a jib sheet winch.

Problem is it's only got a button for UP, not down.
I'm gonna lose a damn finger in this thing if we can't find a solution.

Someone once told me, I think, that this style winch can be converted to both UP and most importantly Down.

Anyone know how, where, what and who to talk to for parts, wiring diagrams, solutions etc.....?

Greatly appreciate any help anyone can provide.


Matt
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Old 13-02-2019, 14:48   #2
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Re: Converting Ideal Windlass to Up & Down???

A quick Google search resulted in a FAQ from a supplier here: https://www.schaefermarine.com/our-p...deal-windlass/

With this (seemingly) helpful section:

Can my single direction windlass be reversed?

Most 12 volt windlasses have a reversing motor. All that is needed are additional controls. To determine if your motor is reversible, check to see if there is an additional terminal that is not being used. If you have a two terminal motor you will need to purchase aReversing Kit which contains an additional foot switch and a reversing solenoid assembly. Windlasses that run on A/C power can be reversed by purchasing a reversing controller and additional foot switch. Older model BHW and most horizontal windlasses cannot be reversed without changing the gearing

Good luck.
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Old 13-02-2019, 15:14   #3
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Re: Converting Ideal Windlass to Up & Down???

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattdana78 View Post
Hello Everyone,

Looking for advice, not finding the answers online thus far:

We have just bought a 50 ft sailboat with an Ideal vertical Capstan style windlass with chain gypsy and the rode drum above that which looks just like a jib sheet winch.

Problem is it's only got a button for UP, not down.
I'm gonna lose a damn finger in this thing if we can't find a solution.

Someone once told me, I think, that this style winch can be converted to both UP and most importantly Down.

Anyone know how, where, what and who to talk to for parts, wiring diagrams, solutions etc.....?

Greatly appreciate any help anyone can provide.


Matt
Check the drive motor on your Windlass. If it has 3 poles and one is untapped, it will run in either direction in which case all you'll need is a "Reversing Solenoid", a second control switch, and some minor wiring changes. If the motor only has two poles you could, at least in theory, "reverse" its direction of operation but it is somewhat more complicated than the foregoing as the positive and negative leads need be reversed to run in the "down mode". Doable, but something of a chore to wire up correctly.

FWIW...
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Old 14-02-2019, 04:26   #4
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Re: Converting Ideal Windlass to Up & Down???

Ideal/Schaefer Marine Windlass Wiring Diagrams:
https://www.schaefermarine.com/wp-co...G-15-PAGES.pdf

Identify Your Windlass:
https://www.schaefermarine.com/wp-co...R-WINDLASS.pdf
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Old 14-02-2019, 06:49   #5
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Re: Converting Ideal Windlass to Up & Down???

Ideal previously had diagrams up on the site before Schaefer purchased them a few years ago.
We upgraded our Ideal vertical windlass to handle the larger anchor and also hi-test chain. In hindsight, it probably would have been less costly to replace the older windlass w/a new one than to do a la carte upgrades.We didn't need to replace the motor and could see that being very expensive.

My personal experience with the customer service from Schaefer has been less than stellar. When Cliff was running Ideal, one could order parts and they would fit. Now something as simple as a replacement friction disk doesn't have the proper hole alignment or getting a new gypsy (expensive) that didn't fit properly either. Since then we have been making our own friction disks and did the mods to make the new gypsy fit.

If you do keep your Ideal, do some maintenance work on it as this is typically forgotten on a windlass. Take the above deck portion apart and lube it as described and check/change your friction disk. Below deck, check/change gear box lube and take the motor to a good starter repair to check it over.

A solution to your "down" problem could be to loosen the cap and allow the chain to do a controlled free fall. In some deeper anchorages this may be preferable to set the anchor quickly in a particular spot.


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Old 14-02-2019, 12:21   #6
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Re: Converting Ideal Windlass to Up & Down???

It is likely the 3 pole scenario. One pole unused is your reverse pole. Simply add a solenoid and button.

NO REVERSING SOLENOID. Those are for permanent magnet motors,

And I advise against the “controlled” freefall. Although doable. You’re right to want a down button.

You’re not converting your windless. You’ll be utilizing what is already built in.
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Old 14-02-2019, 15:35   #7
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Re: Converting Ideal Windlass to Up & Down???

Hi, if you like a better diagram of the reversing procedure, send me a PM and I send you the diagram from Ideal. The diagram states that every windlass built after 1975 has the reversing feature. Otherwise, see attached file.
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Old 14-02-2019, 16:23   #8
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Re: Converting Ideal Windlass to Up & Down???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill O View Post
Ideal previously had diagrams up on the site before Schaefer purchased them a few years ago...
They still do.
Ideal/Schaefer Marine Windlass Wiring Diagrams:
https://www.schaefermarine.com/wp-co...G-15-PAGES.pdf
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Old 15-02-2019, 06:03   #9
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Re: Converting Ideal Windlass to Up & Down???

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Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
They still do.
Ideal/Schaefer Marine Windlass Wiring Diagrams:
https://www.schaefermarine.com/wp-co...G-15-PAGES.pdf

Will say they have updated some of their pdfs since I last looked, but they still do not have the individual blow apart diagrams or part lists and helpful bulletins. Attached is one such bulletin for the ACW (=V3C)


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File Type: pdf ACW INSTRUCTIONS .pdf (391.4 KB, 82 views)
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Old 16-02-2019, 06:18   #10
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Re: Converting Ideal Windlass to Up & Down???

A controlled deployment using the clutch is my preferred method. Is your clutch not working?
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Old 20-02-2019, 19:06   #11
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Re: Converting Ideal Windlass to Up & Down???

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A controlled deployment using the clutch is my preferred method. Is your clutch not working?
I have the same Ideal windlass. Designed a polarity reversing system but never built it as I found I really dont need it, or another hole in deck for the switch.

To deploy anchor, I pull about 15 ft of chain out of locker and lay it on deck. Loosen clutch, lower anchor hand over hand until anchor and all chain on deck is out. Keep feet out of the way of the chain!! Carefully place chain in gypsy now as its under tension. Chain plus anchor should now be heavy enough to allow freefall to bottom. Mate should be backing down slowly so all is not in a pile on bottom. If depth is shallow so weight of chain insufficient to keep it running out, I may then use a screwdriver, not fingers, as a lever to help lift chain out of hawsepipe. Once anchor catches then chain runs freely of course, and can be stopped with the clutch.

This works for us, with 60lb CQR and 3/8 BBB chain. I would not try it if your gear is heavier..
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Old 20-02-2019, 20:22   #12
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Re: Converting Ideal Windlass to Up & Down???

I have an early ACW vertical windlass and the diagrams that Gord linked to are accurate. The motor is reversible but not with an actual third pole. (There is no third pole to hook to) The two poles that are easily identified are for forward or reverse and the ground is directly to the case. I learned the hard way that if you put positive to one pole and use the other as ground, it will run just fine but if you reverse the positive and ground (other terminal) it still runs the same direction. I called Ideal ( a couple of years ago and they sorted me out very easily. With the new management, I emailed recently to find out if the motor is permanent magnet or series wound and the lady said that they didnt have that information. Obviously they have gotten rid of the old timers that knew anything. I still think they are as bullet proof of a winch as can be found and I will figure out whatever issues I have from other sources. OK OTHER SOURCES, is there a visual way of telling if a 12 volt motor is a permanent magnet or series wound???? Grant.
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Old 07-03-2019, 06:35   #13
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Re: Converting Ideal Windlass to Up & Down???

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Originally Posted by Bill O View Post
Will say they have updated some of their pdfs since I last looked, but they still do not have the individual blow apart diagrams or part lists and helpful bulletins. Attached is one such bulletin for the ACW (=V3C)


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Bill,

Thanks for posting the ACW pdf thatís just what I was looking for. I miss all the info that use to be on the Ideal website
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Old 07-03-2019, 06:53   #14
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Re: Converting Ideal Windlass to Up & Down???

You're welcome.

Don't know if you need a replacement ACW/V3C gearbox and shaft, but we have our old one boxed up in storage. PM me to discuss.


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Old 03-07-2019, 09:56   #15
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Re: Converting Ideal Windlass to Up & Down???

Can anyone help me with instructions to adjust and service my clutch on our Ideal windless. It is about an 1983 model with a vertical capstan above the chain gypsy. Only is power up type. Lifts the chain ok but slips when the chain and stock get to the bow roller and canít get the stock over the roller. Any help would be great. Thanks Robinís Nest Morgan 416
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