Comparing design of Delta and Sarca Excel anchors

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by eheffa

]

If I were buying a new anchor, I would give the Sarca Excel a good hard look if only to avoid the rust issue.

OK, so how does a non stainless sarca excel avoid the rust issue?

[eheffa]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

OK, so how does a non stainless sarca excel avoid the rust issue?

I’m guessing that, like the Rocna, the Excel has a better Galvanizing coating than the Spade and would be less inclined to rust. ( I’m not alone in noting the Spade’s propensity to rust...)

In our experience, the Rocna definitely withstood abrasions etc without rusting. The Excel appears to have a more robust galvanizing and but its resistance to rusting is just conjecture on my part.

- evan

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by eheffa

I’m guessing that, like the Rocna, the Excel has a better Galvanizing coating than the Spade and would be less inclined to rust. ( I’m not alone in noting the Spade’s propensity to rust...)

In our experience, the Rocna definitely withstood abrasions etc without rusting. The Excel appears to have a more robust galvanizing and but its resistance to rusting is just conjecture on my part.

- evan

the big thing is that neither the Rocna, Supreme nor either of the Anchor Rite designs have lead ballast and thus are quite easy to re-galvanize. Dunno why Spade does not do a better job at the factory, considering the difficulties of the remedial galvanizing their anchors. I believe they are well aware of the problem, and offer paint-on palliative kits for repair.

Jim

[eheffa]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

.... I believe they are well aware of the problem, and offer paint-on palliative kits for repair.

Jim

Hi Jim,

Spade no longer offers the paint-on palliative care kits. I had one on order when they cancelled the program due to regulatory hassles around packaging and shipping; thus, my plan to try the POR-15 remedy.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by eheffa

Hi Jim,

Spade no longer offers the paint-on palliative care kits. I had one on order when they cancelled the program due to regulatory hassles around packaging and shipping; thus, my plan to try the POR-15 remedy.

Oh, that's a bummer! I have my doubts about the longevity of any paint system in an environment where hot dip galvo gets worn off, but I wish you good luck with it.

Drifting a bit... I've often wondered why you can't design a ballast chamber that would allow regal without removing the lead. In my ignorance, it seems that if you allowed enough head space to accommodate any differential expansion, then a welded up, sealed chamber should work. There must be a reason or it would be common practice and save a lot of trouble!

Jim

[groundtackle]

eheffa, I'm doing some regalvansing on other items soon as we get the odd issue, it just happens. Maybe we could throw that spade on our pallet as you are just down the street. It's not a big deal to melt the lead out. I could also wrap the toe pre galv with SS, also easy. Make it sorta like an Excel nose.
I'm pretty sure spade made an announcement last year on CF that they would fully guarantee your concerns with full replacement.
Chris

[ilenart]

Originally Posted by SV__Grace

Hi Ilenart, I was concerned about the fit because I was sizing up so I sent measurements and photos to the folks at groundtackle.com. They (chris and nick) were great about answering all my questions and confirmed they saw "no issues" with fit.

And they were right, fits in the bow roller like it belongs there.

I have two issues size-wise:

1. When dropping it I have to maneuver it past the bobstay, but that was true about my Vulcan as well. It would have to be a pretty narrow anchor to clear the bobstay. The Delta would without a problem.

2. The shank is longer than my vulcan and can hit the roller furling drum while I'm maneuvering it past the bobstay. This shouldn't be a problem after some practice.

It comes up and seats in the roller without assistance and without hitting the roller furling drum.

Like everything else on a boat, there's tradeoffs and compromises. As much as I'd like to drop anchor without maneuvering past the bobstay, I'd rather have a larger anchor that does everything I want and gives me peace of mind.

If you're considering an Excel and concerned about size, check the measurements on their website against your current anchor and boat, and if you have questions don't hesitate to contact them as they are good folks who are also boat owners, passionate about anchoring and familiar with most boats out there (I think Chris said that he delivered 3 boats of my exact model, so it was cool talking with someone familiar with my boat).

Thanks SV. I did try contacting Anchor Right Australia last week via email asking for measurements, however I have not received a reply. I have worked out that there is a local reseller nearby so will try that route instead. Like you I am looking at going for a larger anchor so I am investigating the 30kg Excel (No 6). I have looked at the measurements on their website however it is missing some information I need (height of the shank where it sits on the roller).

Its funny how much discussion takes place about anchors on these forums. Anyone would think we are talking about politics

Ilenart

[groundtackle]

ilenart, sorry to hear of your sizing issues. Rex is a busy fellah and also reluctant to provide downloadable full size templates like the big boys do. We struggle with it too.
I'm not near a #6 at the moment but could be in my PST am. If a particular dimension is required go ahead and ask here, thru our site or call.
The Excel was designed around the direct replacement for a Bruce or CQR swap of similar size.
Chris
250.516.7888

[eheffa]

Originally Posted by groundtackle

eheffa, I'm doing some regalvansing on other items soon as we get the odd issue, it just happens. Maybe we could throw that spade on our pallet as you are just down the street. It's not a big deal to melt the lead out. I could also wrap the toe pre galv with SS, also easy. Make it sorta like an Excel nose.
I'm pretty sure spade made an announcement last year on CF that they would fully guarantee your concerns with full replacement.
Chris

Wow! Thank you Chris.

That is a generous offer.

I will give you a call on Monday.

-evan

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by eheffa

Hi Jim,

Spade no longer offers the paint-on palliative care kits. I had one on order when they cancelled the program due to regulatory hassles around packaging and shipping; thus, my plan to try the POR-15 remedy.

I spent some money on Por15 paint and did a careful application in a borrowed shed. It was a waste of time if you anchor a lot, like we do.
It's far better to get the Spade regalvanized. The galvanizing shop melted the lead out and replaced for us. We did have a friend who had their Spade done at at shady regalvanizing. The shop removed the 'caked in mud' in the anchor with a torch. When they got it back they had really hard time getting it to set. They finally realized what had happened and melted a bunch of fishing weights back in - all was good.

Even new galvanizing will not last that long on the tip, as it is pretty sharp and gets a lot of wear. Not a problem.

Below is a picture of the Por15 painted anchor.

[RaymondR]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Oh, that's a bummer! I have my doubts about the longevity of any paint system in an environment where hot dip galvo gets worn off, but I wish you good luck with it.

Drifting a bit... I've often wondered why you can't design a ballast chamber that would allow regal without removing the lead. In my ignorance, it seems that if you allowed enough head space to accommodate any differential expansion, then a welded up, sealed chamber should work. There must be a reason or it would be common practice and save a lot of trouble!

Jim

Thats a good solution Jim and something your local welding shop could take care of in about half an hour with a small piece of plate. If I keep the Delta I am going to do so and get it regalvanized the next time I have some chain done. I doubt whether the differences in thermal expansion over the relatively small volume involved would cause a problem.

[rslifkin]

The Excel definitely looks like it would shed mud well, giving it a good chance of resetting if it does manage to get ripped out. I'd expect similar, but maybe not quite as good shed and reset performance from a Vulcan, Spade or Fortress / Danforth. The convex areas will probably clean up faster on the Excel.

For the roll bar anchors, if the mud is thick / sticky enough or there's some weeds, I'd expect it's possible to clog the roll bar with a solid-packed mass and prevent the anchor from cleaning up well enough to reset. Out of the roll bar options, the Mantus is probably the least at risk for this due to the roll bar being much larger.

FWIW, the only thing stopping me from trying an Excel with my new anchoring setup this spring is that the size I'd want (#6 / 30kg) just won't fit on the boat. From the dimensions published, the toe extends too far from the roller and would hit my hull unless I put a bunch of work into modifying the pulpit. I've only got 13" from the forward side of the roller to the tip of the hull under the pulpit (a bit more down further where the toe of most anchors would sit), so not a lot of room to play with. The 33kg / 73lb Vulcan only extends back 11.6" and should sit below the lowest clearance point, so it'll have around 3" of wiggle room to avoid hitting while raising it. Which left it as pretty much my only good choice (being that the pulpit is too long to get a Mantus roll bar over the end without a lot of manual fussing).

[SV__Grace]

Originally Posted by ilenart

Thanks SV. I did try contacting Anchor Right Australia last week via email asking for measurements, however I have not received a reply.
Ilenart

Ilenart, measurements of the various Excel sizes are at the bottom of the page here-
SARCA Excel Anchor - Anchor Right Australia

I used these measurements when evaluating the Exel for my bowsprit.

[SV__Grace]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

FWIW, the only thing stopping me from trying an Excel with my new anchoring setup this spring is that the size I'd want (#6 / 30kg) just won't fit on the boat. From the dimensions published, the toe extends too far from the roller and would hit my hull unless I put a bunch of work into modifying the pulpit. I've only got 13" from the forward side of the roller to the tip of the hull under the pulpit (a bit more down further where the toe of most anchors would sit), so not a lot of room to play with. The 33kg / 73lb Vulcan only extends back 11.6" and should sit below the lowest clearance point, so it'll have around 3" of wiggle room to avoid hitting while raising it. Which left it as pretty much my only good choice (being that the pulpit is too long to get a Mantus roll bar over the end without a lot of manual fussing).

Here's some measurements for my new Excel #8 installation that might be helpful to you-

- Bow to the forward edge of bow roller- 12 inches (compared to your 13 inches)
- Bow to the tip of the anchor- 8 inches
- Top of bow roller to tip of anchor- 8 inches

I was most concerned about the tip clearance as the Excel #8 tip looks really long compared to my Vulcan 33kg, and it is a bit longer, but it angles down and the distance between the tip of the Excel and my bow is about the same as the Vulcan, it just sits a few inches lower, which works well for me because I have a traditional slanted bow.

Is your bow plumb?

I checked out my measurements with Chris at groundtackle.com and sent photos and he assured me it would fit. Perhaps you can hook up with him as well for your situation.

[eheffa]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

The Excel definitely looks like it would shed mud well, giving it a good chance of resetting if it does manage to get ripped out. I'd expect similar, but maybe not quite as good shed and reset performance from a Vulcan, Spade or Fortress / Danforth. The convex areas will probably clean up faster on the Excel.

For the roll bar anchors, if the mud is thick / sticky enough or there's some weeds, I'd expect it's possible to clog the roll bar with a solid-packed mass and prevent the anchor from cleaning up well enough to reset. Out of the roll bar options, the Mantus is probably the least at risk for this due to the roll bar being much larger....

If you haven't watched Steve's SV Panope videos, you might find them very enlightening.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCy1...fcf4asEG_bulHA

We don't have to just guess as to underwater performance as there there is some objective data to show significant differences in anchor behaviour. It is especially interesting to note the differences in performance between designs that otherwise look superficially similar. e.g. The Rocna, Manson Supreme and Mantus all look quite similar but behave very differently underwater. Ditto for the Delta vs Sarca Excel...


-evan