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Old 01-08-2013, 08:23   #46
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Re: China Chain Quality

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Originally Posted by teejayevans View Post
Chain welds are done by machine, that machine works just as well no matter what country it's in, but when I bought my chain I did hand check the welds before I used it.
I have 316 SS chain, at the time it was like 2X the price of US galvanize chain, YMMV.
Tom
You would think, but I have seen poorly welded, partially welded and missed welds on generic Chinese chain. Particularly stainless chain.

Perhaps welding machines need constant adjustments or particular wire feed parameters that go un-managed in some factories?

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Old 01-08-2013, 08:57   #47
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Re: China Chain Quality

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Chain welds are done by machine, that machine works just as well no matter what country it's in
Speaking as someone who has overseen the installation of industrial manufacturing equipment in several different countries, I have two concerns with that statement.

First, not every country has the same quality of primary power available to feed the equipment. The quality of an arc weld can most definitely be affected by fluctuations in the primary power supplied to the equipment. I have seen this first hand, more than a few times.

Second, the machine is only as good as the person that set it up & calibrated it. I trust shop floor technicians in places like Germany & Switzerland far more than I do the ones in China, India or Mexico.
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Old 01-08-2013, 12:26   #48
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Re: China Chain Quality

"It's like this: a Chinese product can be"
Yes it can be. And in between 1950 and 1980, in a span of just 30 years, the Japanese changed their reputation from "Japo Crapo" to some of the finest and most respected electronics and cars on the planet.
The difference being that China comes from literally a thousand years of the Sun God and the three Kingdoms, with the wide-eyed hairy barbarians in the Old World being barely one cut above the other animals in the Lower Kingdom. Screw 'em, they're barely human. Then there are endemic practices that most of the developed world has either put to an end or at least made extensive attempts to change, which China hasn't. Had any toxic contaminants put in milk, medicines, pet foods, toothpaste intentionally by any "Western" companies lately? Maybe all of our news is slanted but it seems like scandals from China outnumber most other nations. Although, Nigeria seems to lead in internet scams but that's perhaps because industrial espionage is more valuable and, well, maybe our news is wrong but the Chinese government seems to be sponsoring a lot of that as well.

Perceptions are sometimes wrong, and always can be changed. Traditions run deep in China and the government doesn't seem to be in a hurry, or able, to really change these things. Even the Disney companies would gladly burn Shenzhen to the ground if that could stop mass counterfeiting of DVDs, which any tourist can find, but the local government can't. Or so they say.


Chain welding machines work the same way all over the world. And when they're out of spec, or poorly adjusted, or not monitored in use, they work poorly no matter where they are. It wouldn't surprise me if machinery that worked perfectly well in France was scrapped when it got out of spec, wound up in China, and some farmer with no engineering skills was "maintaining" it at a chain plant. Feeding it chain made from mixed scrap metals, with lower alloy control, and electricity from a less reliable power grid, with voltage fluctuations, and other opportunities to help the machine fail more often.
This is not unique to China, no. But in the US ane EU, sweatshops burned and workers died a hundred years ago, and now, there is much less tolerance for this. Along with more ways to report and shut down the ones that continue. One day China will figure this out. Or, kill itself with toxins and graft. The same options every country has.

There was a unique problem with some radioactive dinnerware in the US about twenty years ago. It turned out to have been cast in Mexico. From stainless steel scrap. Which somehow included the steel cask holding medical radium or some other element not normally passed in trade. And now we're having problems with Mexican pepper products (hot sauce, etc.) apparently because somehow, there's an unhealthy level of cadmium or lead or something coming in with the peppers grown there. So, unique to China? No. Just too damned common from China, and too widely endorsed by government and tradition there.
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Old 01-08-2013, 18:05   #49
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From what I have seen of ISO 9000 series requirements, it looks more like a system for making manufacturing into a color by numbers game where you can bring in any moderately skilled laborer, make them read the procedures, then do the job. In my opinion, it looks like a system to set up companies so that they can be traded as a commodity, without the need to worry about loosing key individuals who know the necessary processes. It always looked to me like a grass roots tool of the one-world government movement.

But that is just my take on it.
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Old 01-08-2013, 18:45   #50
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Re: China Chain Quality

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Paranoia is alive and well it seems. The gubberment is always out to get you

Dave
Spoken like a true believer that has been born & bread, basking in the warm fuzzy glow of socialism...

That aside, I never said if I thought that the whole one-world government thing was a good idea or a bad one. You seem to have assumed that I take a particular stance on that issue.
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Old 01-08-2013, 19:55   #51
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Re: China Chain Quality

jim, the only thing that ISO900x ensures, is that it tells the buyer that the seller has taken some interest in providing a consistently made product, and if taken all the way, it also tells the customer that there is a formal feedback and improvement process in place to find and correct problems. (Maybe that's ISO 9003, I forget.)

In a way it is like having a restaurant inspector or food inspector. Doesn't guarantee quality, but it does show that someone is at least paying lip service to it, and that they've probably set a bar higher than some others.
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