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Old 25-07-2014, 14:29   #16
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Re: Chesapeake Bay Anchor Holding Power Test

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Hi Chris,

Yes, not far from where the Rachel Carson is docked in Solomons.

The location is at approximately Lat: 38°18'58.49"N and Long: 76°26'48.94"W

Brian

I think we saw her when we were down there a couple weeks ago. If it was closer, I might think to come out and watch, but we'll probably be in Rock Hall around then.

Would be interested in the results when available. Especially if you end up with decent comparative data for our other anchor, too.

Recently somebody in our owners' club was talking about shopping for a Chesapeake Bay anchor, so if he hasn't bought something yet, maybe he'll hold off long enough to see these result, too.

-Chris
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Old 25-07-2014, 14:31   #17
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Re: Chesapeake Bay Anchor Holding Power Test

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I hope you are going to test the ability to reset with a major shift in "wind" direction. That is probably 80% of holding failures in my experience. Anything short of that has been done quite enough.
Brian, to this point, what is of great interest here is the very typical conditions which the boat floats over the set anchor and the following load is 180 degrees out, not a mere 20 degree veer. Load, slack, and load, 180 degrees out! Anything else, or lack there of, is a waste of your time. We all know, the world knows, your anchor holds GREAT in a straight line and constant load in the black mud here!
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Old 25-07-2014, 14:47   #18
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Re: Chesapeake Bay Anchor Holding Power Test

I say lets be open minded, kudos to Fortress for coming here and telling us what they are doing. Who else does that! A Fortress saved my 47 mono in a 70+ wind event. It was my backup with 25 ft of chain and I literally threw it over the side as that's all the time there was before I hit bottom.
Still, just a retest like the past if veering and shift tests aren't done. Even if the anchor turns... doesn't mean it will dig in again.
We all already know the Danforth or Fortress will have the most straight line holding power once dug in.
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Old 25-07-2014, 15:48   #19
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Re: Chesapeake Bay Anchor Holding Power Test

We already know what the test will show. That Fortress will hold best and that the other anchors will hold not as well. Really pointless to test the same straight line pulls. It's been done way too many times.

Veering on the other hand, and I'm talking a 180 degree veer as happens 4 times a day in tidal areas does not seem to be tested at all. Yet oddly That is what we here at CF need to know most as that is how anchors are used day in and day out

The other thing that would be nice to know is what real world force does the typical 35 and 40 foot sailboats generate at anchor in calm to 30-50 knots. That would be priceless.

BTW, anyone what to send me a load cell and some of the newer anchors and I'll do complete testing of the anchors on my 34' boat in sand and mud to 30 knots. I've got my bruce knockoff that holds just nicely in 40 knots gusting 50., I don't even set a snubber in less then 25 knots. Plus I have an old danforth and a even older Northhill anchor (what the commercial fishermen use) to test.

I've got all the time in the world to test anchors. Anyone????
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Old 25-07-2014, 16:01   #20
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Re: Chesapeake Bay Anchor Holding Power Test

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Brian, to this point, what is of great interest here is the very typical conditions which the boat floats over the set anchor and the following load is 180 degrees out, not a mere 20 degree veer. Load, slack, and load, 180 degrees out! Anything else, or lack there of, is a waste of your time. We all know, the world knows, your anchor holds GREAT in a straight line and constant load in the black mud here!
Precisely.

We all already know from experience that the main problem with Danforth-pattern anchors not holding occurs when the anchor is "shock loaded" from the opposite direction when the boat drifts over it during a 180-degree wind shift.

A test that changes the angle of pull gradually isn't going to prove anything. All the anchors need to be tested by running the test boat directly over them and yanking in the opposite direction.
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Old 25-07-2014, 16:05   #21
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Re: Chesapeake Bay Anchor Holding Power Test

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Precisely.

We all already know from experience that the main problem with Danforth-pattern anchors not holding occurs when the anchor is "shock loaded" from the opposite direction when the boat drifts over it during a 180-degree wind shift.

A test that changes the angle of pull gradually isn't going to prove anything. All the anchors need to be tested by running the test boat directly over them and yanking in the opposite direction.
I don't agree, most wind shifts are gradual. Even the one I mentioned above resulting in 70 MPH winds + changed direction with almost no wind at all.. Then 20 mins later the anemometer was pegged. That has been my experience many times anyway.
I doubt there is any anchor that will dig back in with an immediate reversal and hi load test. They just don't work good that way... unless you luckily grab a rock!
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Old 25-07-2014, 16:22   #22
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Re: Chesapeake Bay Anchor Holding Power Test

Thanks for all of your input, it is greatly appreciated.

During preliminary testing, after the initial straight pull we found that it was very difficult to pull out a Fortress anchor when we were directly above it and pulling hard at a 1:1 scope.

The thought that this anchor might somehow pull out easier when side-loaded at a 5:1 or even a 2:1 scope is very difficult to imagine.



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Old 25-07-2014, 16:24   #23
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Re: Chesapeake Bay Anchor Holding Power Test

I can't imagine a manufacturer more "out front" than Fortress. Plus, there will be enough people looking over his shoulder that I suspect that things will be above board. Shheesh... Some of you are even more cynical than I...

As for the results, any additional data is always welcome. You are free to disregard, if so inclined. I appreciate any testing, not done exclusively by the manufacturer.

You will need a hose and brush to clean those anchors. Some of the bottoms in the Solomon's area are quite rank. Just in the Pax River basin (where I suspect they will be operating) there are several variations in the bottom mud/muck/goo, as well as some oyster beds dating from the time that Solomon's was a thriving oyster processor; Back Creek for example.

Hope the weather cooperates.
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Old 25-07-2014, 16:38   #24
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Re: Chesapeake Bay Anchor Holding Power Test

I have always wanted to do an anchor test, you bring yours and I bring mine, we set them as best we can, then we put the two vessels stern to stern and pass a good sized line between them. Start winching on the cockpit primaries, and see who moves...

Really though, we test our anchor every night...
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Old 25-07-2014, 16:44   #25
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Re: Chesapeake Bay Anchor Holding Power Test

I'm with sailorchic (post 19).
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Old 25-07-2014, 16:47   #26
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Re: Chesapeake Bay Anchor Holding Power Test

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I don't agree, most wind shifts are gradual.
True, but gradual windshifts don't usually pull a well-set Danforth-style anchor out.

Sudden 180-degree shifts -- like those that sometimes occur when a cold front comes through in the middle of the night -- often do.

It would seem to me that an anchor type with a hinged stock would fare better under those circumstances. The stock would likely pivot to one side when the load changes direction, and then the flukes would follow... rather than simply flipping out vertically like a Danforth-style anchor does.

Don't get me wrong... I use a Danforth in the Chesapeake and love it under most circumstances. But the sudden 180 thing seems to be its Achilles' Heel.

I'm all in favor of these tests if they are designed to enlighten folks about true strengths and weaknesses, and I suspect the Fortress will be outstanding on a straight-line test. But if the tests are designed to hide a weakness, then they are worse than useless... they are misleading.
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Old 25-07-2014, 17:00   #27
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Re: Chesapeake Bay Anchor Holding Power Test

With a strong 180-degree tidal change assuming heavy/dense mud, does the anchor break free and hopefully reset itself or does it rotate within the bottom/mud, continually holding?
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Old 25-07-2014, 17:01   #28
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Re: Chesapeake Bay Anchor Holding Power Test

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Thanks for all of your input, it is greatly appreciated.

During preliminary testing, after the initial straight pull we found that it was very difficult to pull out a Fortress anchor when we were directly above it and pulling hard at a 1:1 scope.

The thought that this anchor might somehow pull out easier when side-loaded at a 5:1 or even a 2:1 scope is very difficult to imagine.
I'm sure a 3000-4000# pull will set it nicely. But most sailboats are going to generate something around 300# to 500# most of the time. So real world testing is needed at real world pressures. How it holds in a storm is good to know. But place it on a 35' boat in 30 knots of wind with a counter current and life could get interesting.
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Old 25-07-2014, 18:03   #29
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Re: Chesapeake Bay Anchor Holding Power Test

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I don't agree, most wind shifts are gradual. Even the one I mentioned above resulting in 70 MPH winds + changed direction with almost no wind at all.. Then 20 mins later the anemometer was pegged. That has been my experience many times anyway.
Maybe it's regional but with the estuarine diurnal tides and the regular evening storm fronts here on the bay, every anchor which is in use can and will be tested to the standard described. Like it or not. Set, float over and reset hard 180 degrees out. It's not really a "test"; it's a fact of life. Most of the new breed of anchors handle it quite well. Fluke anchors; not too good. Folks here know what I'm describing.
I applaud the test, trust me, I would love to switch to a Fortress working anchor in the bay. My FX-16 is a GREAT anchor in many ways. I have a 35# MS on the bow, which is tested in our black mud and I trust it but 25 extra pounds on the bow I could do without.
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Old 25-07-2014, 19:39   #30
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Re: Chesapeake Bay Anchor Holding Power Test

Brian, why dont you use a 40 foot sailboat to test with? The big powerful research boat is not what we cruise in and will skew results. With enough power it could bury a fortress to China but our sailboats cant do that. Dont forget to try it on an oyster bed.

I guess since you are paying for the tests you can taylor it for best results. By the way I have a guardian that I use in silt or soft mud, works great. It has fouled with oyster shells and failed to reset so I don't use it in oyster areas.

Dont do the 180 degree swing test after setting it with a tug boat or straight line pull. Maybe set it with 200 or 300 pounds and then test for reset after180 degree swing. Our boats dont even have cleats that will hold the forces exerted by the research vessel.
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