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Old 18-12-2011, 14:25   #1
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Canada Metals on Rocna: Doublespeak?

Canada Metals has posted a memo (literally, they called it a MEMO) to customers on their web site http://www.canmet.com/content/resour...CNA%20MEMO.pdf

regarding the questions about Roca anchors being improperly made. And frankly the memo astounds me. First, because you don't "memo" customers in the US. Maybe that one got lost in translation and isn't as condescending as it sounds to US ears.

But the memo says:
" --Find and replace any suspect product

Initial information (derived from an on-going investigation) indicated that ...the shanks of some of the Rocna anchors ...did not meet the manufacturing specification. ...while not meeting the design specification, did not pose any safety concerns, and still exceeded industry proof load strength requirements."


Am I the only one who thinks that's absurb? If the anchors don't pose any safety concern, and they surpass industry requirements, presumably they're 100% good to use. But since they don't meet some other design intention...they're going to make a significant effort and expense to replace the perfectly good anchors??

I don't get it. Segue to George Orwell and 1984...Or do I just need a Canadian-English to US-English translator?


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Old 18-12-2011, 14:31   #2
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Re: Canada Metals on Rocna: Doublespeak?

Hey they're offering to replace your Rocna if you're concerned. What more do you want? They bought the business after the bad anchors were manufactured. Memos are bureaucratic letters usually sent within the same organization.
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Old 18-12-2011, 15:13   #3
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Re: Canada Metals on Rocna: Doublespeak?

So the big question is are the original anchors better then the one it would be replaced with? Still don't know if our 40kg is from the good or bad production.

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Old 18-12-2011, 16:00   #4
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Re: Canada Metals on Rocna: Doublespeak?

Rick,
Maybe it is one of those "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situations. And yes, it certainly is good that a company will say they'll replace it if you have any concern.

The confusing thing is, they say they've confirmed that the anchors were not made up to spec--but then they're also saying, the spec has no meaning, the "bad" anchors are still perfectly safe and exceed standards.

So, if they're perfectly safe and they exceed standards...what's the purpose of having a higher spec? I understand safety margins and appreciate having them, but then doesn't that mean a Rocna buyer is going to be wasting money on the excessive higher specs if a lower spec is perfectly safe and functional?

And if there was nothing wrong with the "bad" batch, what was the original problem that made them go investigating that batch anyhow?

It just begs the questions. Customer confidence, good thing. Satisfaction guarantee, good thing. Free replacement, all good things. Dueling specs and good bad anchors? That's confusing. Not a good thing.
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Old 18-12-2011, 16:23   #5
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Re: Canada Metals on Rocna: Doublespeak?

Yes it's double-speak. This is an example of too much word-smithing causing diluted meaning... The more words you use, the less weight each carries.

What they should have said is: Canada Metals is aware of some quality issues that originated before we acquired the Rocna brand. We have corrected those issues and will assure customer satisfaction regardless of whether your anchor was manufactured before or after our acquisition, and you may contact us if you are a customer with concerns.

But they wrote way too much, and now nit-pickers can have a field day with it.
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Old 18-12-2011, 17:12   #6
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Re: Canada Metals on Rocna: Doublespeak?

I smell "buyers' remorse". It smells like Herbert Cain's pizza chain.
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Old 18-12-2011, 18:27   #7
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Re: Canada Metals on Rocna: Doublespeak?

To admit it is defective is open oneself up to liability...an admission of guilt if an anchor fails. So you never admit to having a defective anchor yet get as many of the bad anchors off the market as is possible. This is the reason for the seemingly Orwellian language.
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Old 20-12-2011, 15:49   #8
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Re: Canada Metals on Rocna: Doublespeak?

Contacted Rocna today, they were really nice and told me there would be no issue in replacing our anchor. They asked for information on where and when I acquired it. In the end I need to contact the company I purchased the anchor from.

After that I called the company and they will work with us to swap anchors, and are willing to bring the new anchor out to us when we swap them out.

So far really happy with the way this is going.

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Old 20-12-2011, 21:03   #9
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Re: Canada Metals on Rocna: Doublespeak?

I did the same.Had a 40kg , bought it in march this year from WM.Had not used it yet , but after all the hoo hah , i let them order me a new one...still made in china though. Says so on the label
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Old 20-12-2011, 21:28   #10
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Still very happy with my Chinese Rocna ... Fellow cruisers cannot believe I am sitting steady for so long ... Really don't get all the fuss that went on here ????
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Old 20-12-2011, 23:05   #11
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Re: Canada Metals on Rocna: Doublespeak?

The memo seems to say that they are replicating the West Marine replacement policy, and are replacing any anchor in any case where the customer is concerned. That's good. You can't ask for more than that.

It also says that some anchors don't meet design spec, even though they meet industry standard. I'm not sure that there is any such thing as "industry standard", and I didn't like it when they tried to "prove" that there was nothing to be worried about by testing some 420 Rocnas to destruction in straight pulls - which is not at all relevant to the problem.

But -- whatever. They seem to be doing the right thing -- modeled after West Marine's very well-done initiative.
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Old 20-12-2011, 23:13   #12
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Re: Canada Metals on Rocna: Doublespeak?

Has there been a single hint that they are replacing them with a superior product? What are they doing, giving everyone a Manson Supreme?

I suppose you are just to take their "word" for it?
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Old 21-12-2011, 07:02   #13
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Re: Canada Metals on Rocna: Doublespeak?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Canada Metals has posted a memo (literally, they called it a MEMO) to customers on their web site http://www.canmet.com/content/resour...CNA%20MEMO.pdf

regarding the questions about Roca anchors being improperly made. And frankly the memo astounds me. First, because you don't "memo" customers in the US. Maybe that one got lost in translation and isn't as condescending as it sounds to US ears.

But the memo says:
" --Find and replace any suspect product

Initial information (derived from an on-going investigation) indicated that ...the shanks of some of the Rocna anchors ...did not meet the manufacturing specification. ...while not meeting the design specification, did not pose any safety concerns, and still exceeded industry proof load strength requirements."


Am I the only one who thinks that's absurb? If the anchors don't pose any safety concern, and they surpass industry requirements, presumably they're 100% good to use. But since they don't meet some other design intention...they're going to make a significant effort and expense to replace the perfectly good anchors??



I don't get it. Segue to George Orwell and 1984...Or do I just need a Canadian-English to US-English translator?

I suspect this has more to do with the requirements of "Truth in Advertising" laws than any material risk of failures. If one advertises 50 KSI steel in the manufacture and a consumer--or worse, his/her attorney--subsequently discovers that the steel was actually 45 KSI, one is immediately guilty of "False Advertising" and consequential penalties/damages, particularly so if the anchor does, in fact fail in some respect, even if a 5 KIS anchor might have failed in the same circumstances. If one is advised, however, that the steel is of lesser strength, and one declines to accept an offer of an exchange, one waives any right to relief.

FWIW...
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Old 21-12-2011, 08:17   #14
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Re: Canada Metals on Rocna: Doublespeak?

I suspect it is just the case that the penny has finally dropped for the new owners - about the reputation that Rocna has created amongst many folk.....and that they were in a no win situation by pretending the past (?!) never happened.

New for old is probably the cheapest way to deal with the issue, short term cost - long term benefit.

Now all they need to do is be a bit clearer on what metal they are now made of, whether now to the original specs, who physically makes them and in what country. Some clear info on the testing certification (if any?) would be nice - with some Youtube.

I would probably have got a Rocna at some point - and that despite the looney Craig.......but will be after a Manson instead, simply from a lack of trust / suspicion that Craig was (is?!) an accurate reflection of the Rocna company ethos.
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Old 21-12-2011, 08:20   #15
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Re: Canada Metals on Rocna: Doublespeak?

Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
.......but will be after a Manson instead, simply from a lack of trust / suspicion that Craig was (is?!) an accurate reflection of the Rocna company ethos.
Yes, it seems to me a matter of someone being enticed to buy more Enron stock...

... I do not understand why someone would accept another Rocna....
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