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Old 26-12-2011, 15:14   #61
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Did not intend to offend just making a point that china is under such growing pains with their own industrial revolution that quality controls, etc will take a little time to catch up. I am not sure what your references were trying to point out. Do you really think Americans think they are perfect. What we were talking about was anchors and specifically Rochna anchors quality since they moved to a china factory.
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Old 26-12-2011, 15:21   #62
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Re: Canada Metals on Rocna: Doublespeak?

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
You did look at Dkdoyle's video right?

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Nope. Got an URL?
THE BIG Picture in post 56?
thats a you tube link

Quote:
His video shows...business ethics? Or what we already know, that the shank can be bent because someone used weaker metal?
It shows a ship built in China that didn't float on launch.
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Old 26-12-2011, 15:24   #63
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Re: Canada Metals on Rocna: Doublespeak?

Of course if the original Rocna company actually specified the weaker steel, then China is totally irrelevant here. And since the new owners say that even with the weaker steel the anchors are still perfectly good...

Does it matter at all?

I still maintain that any anchor you can physically lift, is too light to do the job. And if it is big enough to do the job, it is useless beause you can't lift it anyway. Please refer any enquiries to Major Major.
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Old 26-12-2011, 15:24   #64
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Re: Canada Metals on Rocna: Doublespeak?

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Originally Posted by Dkdoyle View Post
Do you really think Americans think they are perfect.
You're kidding right
Many do, yes


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What we were talking about was anchors and specifically Rochna anchors quality since they moved to a china factory.
I see, so what did the video of a ship have to do with it?

Quote:
I am not sure what your references were trying to point out.
The same thing that your video of the ship were trying to point out.
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Old 26-12-2011, 15:34   #65
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Re: Canada Metals on Rocna: Doublespeak?

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You're kidding right
Many do, yes
Regardless, let's not spend anytime discussing which nation suffers from what complexes since it will simply mean the thread will get closed, posts deleted and moderators irritated (or at least perturbed) and possibly the perpetrator rewarded with a dreaded black mark on their record.

In other words, let's keep it between the ditches.
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Old 03-01-2012, 13:06   #66
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Re: Canada Metals on Rocna: Doublespeak?

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Rocna were designed with Bisplate 800 MPa steel so as to allow a thinner and thus less weight shank for the same strength. The steel is very important here. You recall Smith writing on just how important the steel was. High strength steel allowed less weight which was claimed a requirement for good setting performance.

Other anchors use thicker cross sections in their shank to get the desired rigidity/strength. You can get strength by using shapes (I or H for example) other than flat bar.

Different anchor shanks (metal and shape) are not apples to apples.

If Rocna had increased the shank thickness while going to 420 MPa plate we would not be talking about bent Rocnas. We might be talking about suckie setting instead.
The main points in this post are highlighted.

It was constantly preached and rammed down everyone's throat on every forum possible that the Rocna was superior in strength and performance and made using Bis80 steel.

Advertising material, publicity releases, certification press releases and any other form of announcement that could be made was done using this as the benchmark and the reason for buying a Rocna over any of the other so called "inferior" competition.

This still continued , in the face of cold hard evidence to the contrary, through to the middle of 2011 when they suddenly chose to shut up and hide low while they came to an arrangement to change the supplier to CMP.

Smith and Bambury kept the full extent of substandard metals use from CMP who either grossly failed in their due diligence or believing Smith and Bambury chose to ignore it. Both these men are still at the forefront of the CMP operation.

Once again misleading statements have been released in the form of "memorandum" to customers via their website and references to metal quality removed from the site. Google searches of past pages and press releases are however still able to be found.

Deliberately misleading customers in the first place is bad enough, but continuing the charade and expecting to get away with it is something else entirely.

The arrogance of all involved is astounding.
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Old 03-01-2012, 13:24   #67
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Re: Canada Metals on Rocna: Doublespeak?

My Rocna, bought in January 2009, says "Made in New Zealand." I've had good performance, no problems, and intend to keep using it for a long time. But do you suppose it's made with the Bis80 steel, as advertised?
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Old 03-01-2012, 13:56   #68
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Re: Canada Metals on Rocna: Doublespeak?

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My Rocna, bought in January 2009, says "Made in New Zealand." I've had good performance, no problems, and intend to keep using it for a long time. But do you suppose it's made with the Bis80 steel, as advertised?

Yes, all Rocna's made in NZ are Bis80 shanks, and in Jan 09 there were no chinese Rocna's in USA.
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Old 03-01-2012, 15:43   #69
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Re: Canada Metals on Rocna: Doublespeak?

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Regardless, let's not spend anytime discussing which nation suffers from what complexes since it will simply mean the thread will get closed, posts deleted and moderators irritated (or at least perturbed) and possibly the perpetrator rewarded with a dreaded black mark on their record.

In other words, let's keep it between the ditches.
Off the subject but wait ..................... there's a report card with black marks? Is there extra credit available afterwards to get it removed?


I bet once the China manufacturing shop is moved ............... there will be a bunch of "knock-offs" entering the market by the other shop.
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Old 03-01-2012, 18:13   #70
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Re: Canada Metals on Rocna: Doublespeak?

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Off the subject but wait ..................... there's a report card with black marks? Is there extra credit available afterwards to get it removed?


I bet once the China manufacturing shop is moved ............... there will be a bunch of "knock-offs" entering the market by the other shop.

Moved?

No, production continues in the same facility it has since 2009, the only move , if you read the CMP statements properly, is that of QC and shipping to their own China facility.
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Old 05-01-2012, 20:03   #71
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Re: Canada Metals on Rocna: Doublespeak?

If you want real double speak try this link

Rocna Anchors acquired by Canada Metal Pacific - Page 123 - Yachting and Boating World Forums

Read from Rigger's post, No1229 on RINA.
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Old 05-01-2012, 20:21   #72
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Re: Canada Metals on Rocna: Doublespeak?

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If you want real double speak try this link

Rocna Anchors acquired by Canada Metal Pacific - Page 123 - Yachting and Boating World Forums

Read from Rigger's post, No1229 on RINA.
A different RINA to what I would have thought

there is this one, The Royal Institution of Naval Architects who rocna used

And then there is this one RINA - Ship classification, certification and services to industry
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Old 05-01-2012, 21:01   #73
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Re: Canada Metals on Rocna: Doublespeak?

Cat Man Do,

I think you will find they used the Italian Classification Society, RINA, and never used the naval architects.

If you read through the posts, subsequent to Rigger's introduction of the topic you will find links to the certificate, which is clearly the Italian Classification Society, with a similar role to that of Lloyds Register, ABS, DNV et al.
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Old 18-01-2012, 09:19   #74
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Re: Canada Metals on Rocna: Doublespeak?

Perhaps there is more to this story . . . .

Family missing $23k after building project quashed - Celeste Gorrell Anstiss - NZ Herald News
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Old 18-01-2012, 09:39   #75
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Oh my... I lost track of who is who around this Rocna fiasco and their account names here on CF but better make some popcorn and keep an eye to this thread....

ciao!
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