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Old 21-12-2011, 09:33   #16
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Re: Canada Metals on Rocna: Doublespeak?

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Originally Posted by s/v 'Faith' View Post
Yes, it seems to me a matter of someone being enticed to buy more Enron stock...

... I do not understand why someone would accept another Rocna....
Exactly! As one who bought based on the stated Steel spec and claimed RINA cert and having returned it (Twice at that) I would not buy another Rocna. And In fact I advise against buying to others. My chandler will not sell Rocna's based on the info that has come out.

Should Rocna/CMP return to 800 MPa steel or enlarge the shanks in a redesign or some other such action that makes stronger shanks.... And has some independent testing done for side pulls, I might consider them.

Till then I know of at least 8 lost sales. plus the local WM folks tend to steer people to the web for Rocna failure info. That cannot help sales.

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Old 21-12-2011, 11:05   #17
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Re: Canada Metals on Rocna: Doublespeak?

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Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post

Now all they need to do is be a bit clearer on what metal they are now made of, whether now to the original specs, who physically makes them and in what country. Some clear info on the testing certification (if any?) would be nice - with some Youtube.

I would probably have got a Rocna at some point - and that despite the looney Craig.......but will be after a Manson instead, simply from a lack of trust / suspicion that Craig was (is?!) an accurate reflection of the Rocna company ethos.
They will continue to be produced in China, apparently at their existing plant. If I recall, they were a bit fuzzy on the metal component, but I seem to remember that it would not be the original specs Peter required.

It would be nice if they actually responded to some of the questions on this or other forums; I am sure they are aware of them.
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Old 21-12-2011, 11:19   #18
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Re: Canada Metals on Rocna: Doublespeak?

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New for old is probably the cheapest way to deal with the issue, short term cost - long term benefit.
There are those who feel burned by the company and the product but I personally have little of substance to complain about.

I have been dealing with first Rocna, then Canada Metals over my 20KG that I bought last spring.

It started off with a concern about the original issue of misleading specifications (I had an email from Rocna stating that the Chinese anchors were exactly the same, if not better) and then when I mentioned that I had premature rusting (just a small spot) after light use in fresh water. CM offered to replace my anchor at no expense. This is currently in process and they have followed up as promised so far which has definitely addressed my concerns about if they will stand behind the product.

As for the product, I have never used it in a real blow but I have been happy with the dozen or so times I used it last summer. If the product works, and the company supports it, what is the problem?
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Old 21-12-2011, 11:39   #19
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Re: Canada Metals on Rocna: Doublespeak?

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SNIP!

As for the product, I have never used it in a real blow but I have been happy with the dozen or so times I used it last summer. If the product works, and the company supports it, what is the problem?
I recall letting my brother lower the anchor in Echo Bay once. I backed down and the rode came tight and held well. For 2 days we were there with no problems.

Then on the 3rd day the wind changed and got stronger and after a while we started to drag.

I pulled the anchor only to find that the chain was a ball around the anchor (a delta). My brother had just tossed it all down in a heap and it (perhaps) hung up on a rock till the wind shifted.

Could one say I don't see the problem with improper anchoring? (Or improper anchors) They work! (most of the time)


I should add that if we had been on shore or if asleep when the wind came up we would have been on the rocks.
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Old 21-12-2011, 12:55   #20
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Re: Canada Metals on Rocna: Doublespeak?

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II should add that if we had been on shore or if asleep when the wind came up we would have been on the rocks.
I had a very similar experience with my old CQR although instead of chain wrapped around it it was weeds...
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Old 21-12-2011, 13:27   #21
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Re: Canada Metals on Rocna: Doublespeak?

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Still very happy with my Chinese Rocna ... Fellow cruisers cannot believe I am sitting steady for so long ... Really don't get all the fuss that went on here ????

I would still be thinking.

---- Do I believe what the Banbury organisation told me about my anchor ??
---- I hope the metal in my shank is 640 not 420 ?? Is it ??
---- If it is 620 that won’t make any difference vs 800 will it ??
---- Its blowing tonight better sleep light !!

Nobody is suggesting the design of the anchor is an issue, the issue is can you believe the previous organisation. Canada Metals certainly has a job on their hands restoring brand trust.

Have a great trip and don’t drink too many Caiprina’s in Brazil. I know I would.
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Old 21-12-2011, 14:43   #22
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Re: Canada Metals on Rocna: Doublespeak?

Sounds like time to send two dozen Rocnas--a mix of old and new--to the guys at MythBusters, and ask them to stage a double-blind test to see if they can bust the ten old models, without busting the ten new ones.

Or for the new boss to just ante up and hire a copywriter to do their press releases. Copywriters really AREN'T that expensive by the hour.

I think I'm gonna get me some scrap and a good welder, all these invincible commercial anchors are just confusing me, and my PO says I should try to avoid things that confuse me.
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Old 21-12-2011, 18:01   #23
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Ok so I should be able to pick up a perfectly good used rochna really cheap?
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Old 21-12-2011, 18:59   #24
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Re: Canada Metals on Rocna: Doublespeak?

What shocks me is that despite the horrible press and many questions surrounding quality, Rocna suppliers in Canada haven't moved one buck on the price! No one carries Manson or Sarca here so there is no alternative short of a drive to the old US of A. I think I'll be waiting for this to all sort out.
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Old 21-12-2011, 19:47   #25
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Re: Canada Metals on Rocna: Doublespeak?

Used cheap...ROFL. I have this picture in my head now of Rocna anchors with their labels half cut, hanging with the other designer imperfects in the back of Filene's or Syms.<G> (Both in bankruptcy now.)
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Old 21-12-2011, 22:29   #26
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Re: Canada Metals on Rocna: Doublespeak?

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What shocks me is that despite the horrible press and many questions surrounding quality, Rocna suppliers in Canada haven't moved one buck on the price! No one carries Manson or Sarca here so there is no alternative short of a drive to the old US of A. I think I'll be waiting for this to all sort out.
Doesn't West Marine carry Manson in Canada?
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Old 21-12-2011, 22:38   #27
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Re: Canada Metals on Rocna: Doublespeak?

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Doesn't West Marine carry Manson in Canada?
you could also order from Defender. They ship to Canada.
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Old 22-12-2011, 13:55   #28
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Re: Canada Metals on Rocna: Doublespeak?

Orice and price point, discounts and not, that's all a very arcane art or complex science depending on who you ask. What might seem like the "best" or "obvious" way tp price things, often simply isn't when you're trying to accomplish a specific goal. Which could be moving inventory, or maximizing profit, or maintaining brand name as "the finest" and most expensive.

Cashmere sweaters, $19.95, no one buys them figuring at that price they're cheap wool. Same sweaters, $69.99 marked down on sale today only for $19.99, they go like hotcakes. (That's a real story, I think from the early days of Macy's. Macy was a marketing genius.)

With some products, there isn't much margin, there arn't many discounts. With others...it is marketing. When car stereos had a 40% markup in the 70's, there were discount wars and Crazy Eddie. then someone figured out, now each major chain has their own *unique* model numbers and feature sets and colors, so discount competitors? Never scan stock the same product. End of price wars. Now of course, the margins are different as well.

Price points, like sail trim, only appear easy.
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Old 22-12-2011, 17:03   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor
Used cheap...ROFL. I have this picture in my head now of Rocna anchors with their labels half cut, hanging with the other designer imperfects in the back of Filene's or Syms.<G> (Both in bankruptcy now.)
Hey they are going to do something with all those returned anchors. Companies usually dump stuff they can't sell to discount houses.
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Old 22-12-2011, 21:04   #30
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Re: Canada Metals on Rocna: Doublespeak?

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Hey they are going to do something with all those returned anchors. Companies usually dump stuff they can't sell to discount houses.
Depends on the business. You'd have to re-brand these and it still might not be a good idea. I would guess (and that's all this is) that the anchor market is small enough that dumping a bunch of anchors would have a negative impact so cutting them up and selling them for scrap might make more sense

I think it's like hellosailors excellent discussion of price point; these things can be complicated.
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