Can I Mix Types Of Chain?

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by sailingharry

This leads to a question. How much is enough chain? Some references (for example: https://www.sailmagazine.com/cruisin...-in-deep-water) suggest that 3:1 scope is suitable in very deep water (maybe extreme, but certainly you don't need the 7:1 I usually use in shallow muddy Chesapeake Bay anchorages). Chain is certainly a big plus in the South Pacific, as it is much more resistant to chafe. But, 200 feet allows anchoring in 50 feet of water at 4:1 scope! And I would suspect that you'd rarely put out even 100 feet, since that is 25 feet of water at 4:1. Would a good compromise be 100 or even 150 feet of chain, followed by 200 (or even 300) feet of rope? Normally, you'd be 100% chain. But you would have the ability to put out 300 feet, or 5:1 in 60 feet of water (or 7:1 in 40 feet of water for storm conditions). And in 60 feet of water, the rope part is likely to never touch the coral.

So, for those who have actually sailed the South Pacific, how often do you put out more than 150 feet of chain?

Most of the time. Anchoring in deep water is an unfortunate requirement in the S. Pacific more often than you'd expect if you haven't been here. We spent a month recently in many anchorages in an area in Fiji where we were always in 45 to 70 feet. We've had to anchor in 80 feet in the Societies once or twice. For the SP I'd say 275 to 325 ft of chain is optimal. 325ft being a 100m, which is what we carry.
There are a lot of remote islands that have very limited anchoring choices. If you are going to visit you have to deal with what's available and deal with it in both good and bad weather.

[AndyEss]

I might be interested in buying into your barrel option. I won't be back on my boat (in LA Harbor) for another several weeks to check my anchor winch gypsy for chain size though. I also have Mexico/South Pacific plans on my near horizon. This thread has been illuminating - pearl floats (add to list).

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by Paul L

We've had to anchor in 80 feet in the Societies once or twice. For the SP I'd say 275 to 325 ft of chain is optimal. 325ft being a 100m, which is what we carry.

Paul, very helpful answer, thanks! As you said, "More than you'd expect if you haven't been there!" I rarely anchor in more than 8-10, and I've never anchored in more than about 20 feet (BVI's), and can't imagine 80 feet! But it leads back to the second half of my question -- would 200 feet of chain and 300 feet of rope be a satisfactory (and much lighter!) alternative to 325 feet of chain? 325 feet of chain only gives you 4:1 in that 80 feet of water, while putting out 200 feet of chain and another 200 feet of rope gives you 5:1 (and if you put out the entire hypothetical 200+300, it's over 6:1).

I note that you have an Outbound 44, #1 on our list of boats to buy when we win the lottery. It can handle the weight of that much chain (among many other incredible characteristics of the boat!). Many other boats will struggle under the weight of 325 feet of chain -- in 3/8 BBB, that's about 500 pounds in the anchor locker.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by sailingharry

Paul, very helpful answer, thanks! As you said, "More than you'd expect if you haven't been there!" I rarely anchor in more than 8-10, and I've never anchored in more than about 20 feet (BVI's), and can't imagine 80 feet! But it leads back to the second half of my question -- would 200 feet of chain and 300 feet of rope be a satisfactory (and much lighter!) alternative to 325 feet of chain? 325 feet of chain only gives you 4:1 in that 80 feet of water, while putting out 200 feet of chain and another 200 feet of rope gives you 5:1 (and if you put out the entire hypothetical 200+300, it's over 6:1).

I note that you have an Outbound 44, #1 on our list of boats to buy when we win the lottery. It can handle the weight of that much chain (among many other incredible characteristics of the boat!). Many other boats will struggle under the weight of 325 feet of chain -- in 3/8 BBB, that's about 500 pounds in the anchor locker.

Firstly I would not be using 3/8 chain on your boat. 5/16, 8m, G40 chain would be much lighter and would be stronger. You can certainly go with a shorter amount of chain and back with line. Another approach would be to have a section of chain stored in the bilge and use a connector when you think you need it. The problem with this is that you most likely won't use it much and might not use it when you need it. That picture of the bommie with the pearl floats would do some real damage to line if the winds slacked at night and the line dropped loose for a bit.
G4 chain in a smaller dimension, maybe 225/250 feet long backed with line should work for you. And of course connected to a large new gen anchor.

We anchored in a really popular spot in Fiji for a week. It was a relatively flat bottom of nice sand with no bommies. The depth was 60 feet and the holding was good. There was a 1 foot deep reef in front of us and behind with wind that was primarily SE but changed at times to SW and NE. The distance between the reefs allowed you to drop the hook and pay out about 225ft. We did see people drag who were too short scoped. So forget about your shallow anchorages and not anchoring on a lee shore- it is much more challenging and much more rewarding.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by sailingharry

Paul, very helpful answer, thanks! As you said, "More than you'd expect if you haven't been there!" I rarely anchor in more than 8-10, and I've never anchored in more than about 20 feet (BVI's), and can't imagine 80 feet! But it leads back to the second half of my question -- would 200 feet of chain and 300 feet of rope be a satisfactory (and much lighter!) alternative to 325 feet of chain? 325 feet of chain only gives you 4:1 in that 80 feet of water, while putting out 200 feet of chain and another 200 feet of rope gives you 5:1 (and if you put out the entire hypothetical 200+300, it's over 6:1).

I note that you have an Outbound 44, #1 on our list of boats to buy when we win the lottery. It can handle the weight of that much chain (among many other incredible characteristics of the boat!). Many other boats will struggle under the weight of 325 feet of chain -- in 3/8 BBB, that's about 500 pounds in the anchor locker.

FWIW:

We've been cruising in the SW Pacific for the past 29 years now and have had a few deep anchorages to deal with. On our previous boat we had ~280 feet of chain with another ~200 feet of rope rode spliced on. In the 15 years we cruised the SWP in that boat we got into the rope part once. turns out that in deeper anchorages with chain ~3:1 scope is adequate... something we did not know when we set out.

So, in this boat we did away with the rope entirely, and get by with around 270 feet of 10 mm chain. So far this has been adequate, anchoring in VAnuatu, New Caledonia and Australia for some 14 years.

Do be aware that while there are some 80 foot anchorages, they are not usually ones that you would choose if bad wx was on the way. We've never been forced into that situation... could possibly happen, but to predicate your tackle on such instances is more pessimistic than we are! One can always add some spare line to the rode if some serious situation demanded it. Most cruisers carry heaps of extra lines of suitable size.

And I would agree that 3/8 (10 mm) isn't required for your boat.

Jim

[Matt Johnson]

Also, will the Maxwell 700 even handle 3/8? I haven't looked it up, but if number indicates watts as most brands, 1/4 or 5/16 would be max for a 700 watt windlass.

Matt

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

FWIW:

We've been cruising in the SW Pacific for the past 29 years now and have had a few deep anchorages to deal with. On our previous boat we had ~280 feet of chain with another ~200 feet of rope rode spliced on. In the 15 years we cruised the SWP in that boat we got into the rope part once. turns out that in deeper anchorages with chain ~3:1 scope is adequate... something we did not know when we set out.

So, in this boat we did away with the rope entirely, and get by with around 270 feet of 10 mm chain. So far this has been adequate, anchoring in VAnuatu, New Caledonia and Australia for some 14 years.

Do be aware that while there are some 80 foot anchorages, they are not usually ones that you would choose if bad wx was on the way. We've never been forced into that situation... could possibly happen, but to predicate your tackle on such instances is more pessimistic than we are! One can always add some spare line to the rode if some serious situation demanded it. Most cruisers carry heaps of extra lines of suitable size.

And I would agree that 3/8 (10 mm) isn't required for your boat.

Jim

Yep, I sure wouldn't choose an 80 ft anchorage for storm conditions. I have ended up in 70-80ft anchorages when it was too late in the day with not enough light to risk going anywhere else among the reefs or out the pass. At that point, 3 to 1 scope is usually fine. Maybe 2.5 to 1???

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

And I would agree that 3/8 (10 mm) isn't required for your boat.
Jim

You and Paul both said 3/8" wasn't required. I was sitting there wondering what you are talking about -- then noticed my "handle" mentions my Sabre 34. Yes, that's my boat, and yes, I don't need 3/8"! The admiral and I retire in under 4 years, and we expect to be in a much larger boat by then. Monohull in the 42-45' range, or catamaran in the 38-43 foot range.

Thanks to both of you for your very useful comments.

Harry

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by sailingharry

You and Paul both said 3/8" wasn't required. I was sitting there wondering what you are talking about -- then noticed my "handle" mentions my Sabre 34. Yes, that's my boat, and yes, I don't need 3/8"! The admiral and I retire in under 4 years, and we expect to be in a much larger boat by then. Monohull in the 42-45' range, or catamaran in the 38-43 foot range.

Thanks to both of you for your very useful comments.

Harry

Didn't you also mention that the boat was too small to handle the weight of 300ft of chain?

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Didn't you also mention that the boat was too small to handle the weight of 300ft of chain?

I said that "many other boats would struggle." My Sabre 34 would struggle, indeed! But the owner would struggle even more -- since there is no windlass.... LOL. Weekend cruising in the shallow Chesapeake is considerably less complicated!

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by sailingharry

I said that "many other boats would struggle." My Sabre 34 would struggle, indeed! But the owner would struggle even more -- since there is no windlass.... LOL. Weekend cruising in the shallow Chesapeake is considerably less complicated!

Yep, for that much chain you need a windlass or to be very young.

[blueazimuth]

1. NO !!!
2. 3 strand does slip in all windlesses.
3. "Tailing" ??? I would very strongly suggest NO !!!
4. I always use an all chain rode (and end-for-end) even with "new" design anchors and also carry a chain / rope rode.
5. I used to use 20 ft of chain - it's not enough. I have learned to carry 50 ft, and sometimes wonder if that is enough...
5. Multiple strand rope, such as 8 strand, will not slip in a gipsy designed for chain and rode. While more forgiving, the size of the 8 strand should also be compatible with the gipsy.

[botanybay]

Originally Posted by skipmac

Not sure if you are kidding here or serious. If serious, what would one use instead of chain? If the coral will grind the galvanizing off a chain then it would certainly chaff through a rope rode in short order.

I had to read it twice too, he is suggesting not starting with USED chain. Not to use something other than chain.

[botanybay]

In the Marshall islands I would often anchor in 80+ feet

[Valmika]

Originally Posted by funjohnson

Also, will the Maxwell 700 even handle 3/8? I haven't looked it up, but if number indicates watts as most brands, 1/4 or 5/16 would be max for a 700 watt windlass.

Matt

Do you know if you can get a 3/8 gypsy for your Maxwell 700?