Budget anchoring (?)

[Tylermartinsail]

Originally Posted by gmakhs

Mantus won't make a big difference , delta is as good.

I actually have lots of experience with both anchors, and trust me the Mantus does make a huge difference! In certain bottoms the Delta is OK, but the Mantus performs excellent in all bottoms except rock shelf of course. I run a charter company in Key West, and put Mantus Anchors on all our boats. They never drag, ever. There is no substitute for a Mantus. It’s worth the money.

[Munoz]

You're current set up isn't all that bad, the bruce is an anchor that sets easily, tolerates wind/tide shifts and works OK on a short scope, it's main fault is a lack of ultimate holding power in strong winds. But if your expecting strong winds you can then set the danforth (good holding power but unreliable with changes in direction of pull) on a second rode in the direction you expect the wind to come from.



This is the stratagy I use on my boat (high windage 35ft/8 tons with a 20kg bruce (main) and a 6kg aluminum danforth type kedge).


That said, in your shoes I'd want a 14-16 kg main anchor and at least 20-30 meters of chain.

Seeing as you have a bit of time still, maybe you could see if you can pick up secondhand ~15kg bruce/danforth/kobra etc and some more chain (when someone is throwing out a rusty chain, often the end away from the anchor is quite good and can be salvaged).


If you are buying new, SVB or AWN in Germany sell (and deliver) Kobra and other anchors reasonably cheaply.


If your reasonably young/fit a windlass certainly isn't essential on a boat that size (even with an all chain rode), but you could probably find a second hand manual one for not much coin (and it's nice to have when your anchor tries to bring a fishing net or similar along for the ride........)

[Sojourner]

How is this even a question at this point in life? The new gen anchors are pretty much indisputably the best in terms of 1) ease of setting 2) ease of resetting with wind changes 3) most forgiving 4) most versatile.

Yes a danforth holds better than anything in sand, and defo keep yours for kedge/second anchor. And if you are only ever sand anchoring, fine. But if you are going cruising, get a proper or oversized new gen, huh? Anything other than a mantus or rocna is a step (or many steps) down. People will argue you can get a CQR to set fine just gotta do this and that and be patient blah blah. Know what I like to do? Hit an anchorage, drop that rocna, throw it in reverse for a minute at half power, and crack open a beer. In 2 minutes or less. Every single time. Cheapest insurance policy you can ever have IMO is an oversized new gen anchor. Do it, put that puppy over, and come have a beer with us while the old schoolers are still trying to finagle their plows

EDIT: Also. Don't bother with anything other than an authentic Mantus brand swivel. Same reasons... other swivels can work if if if.... Mantus crushes that swivel game yo

[kmacdonald]

Well it might be time to re-visit what the best anchor is. Who know, opinions may have changed.

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by gmakhs

People have been anchoring with no rockna or mantus for years with success...

And if we go back a few millenia people anchored with success using big rocks. Times change. New developments are not always better, but sometimes they are. The Rocna/Mantus style anchor has been around long enough now to have a very well-proven track record. They DO work better than plow type anchors in most (not all, but most) situations.

Originally Posted by gmakhs

Still with the price of rockna you can buy bigger delta plus a windlass (manual one ) so for the budget sailor makes sense.

Really? West Marine lists a 20kg Delta for $344, and a 20kg Rocna for less than $100 more than that. Please do tell me where I can buy a windlass for less than $100.


If you like your Delta, fine. I'm not going to tell you that it is a bad anchor. It is not. But neither is a Rocna, and the price difference is just not anywhere near as great as you are trying to make it sound.

[roverhi]

Keep both your current anchors with at least one rode to split between them if you can't afford a rode for each. Anchors can get lost and a stern anchor or kedge anchor may be necessary. Get at least 250'/75m of 8 plait anchor line at least 12mm and preferably 16mm with 30'/9m of 8mm chain paired to a 15kilo new pattern anchor. Ebay and a Craig's List variant will be a good source to find used anchor/line/chain if you have the time to wait.

You could make it with your current ground tackle but it's barely marginal for 24/7/365 anchoring. Good ground tackle is peace of mind and a boat saver.

[-bliss-]

Tjena Jonas and welcome on board!
Nice to have another Scandinavian cruiser here!

Well, during my first decade as a cruiser I slept with one eye open, mainly due to the performance of notoriously unreliable anchors, primarily the Delta. I have a soft spot for the Bruce design, but in my experience you need a heavy one in order to penetrate the thick mud in Scandinavia. The bruce 30 has worked reliably on the occasions I used one. Totally wrong size for your Beason, though..

I bought the first Rocna 33 that arrived in Norway, and was amazed and shocked by the instant penetration into the clay. I fell asleep smiling with this hook for a couple of years before I got used to the superior performance. At least in Scandinavian soil, It´s really day and night. Most of my deck gear is manufactured by Lewmar, and I like it all, however, a delta is not welcome on board my boat ever again. Been there done that. It just doesn´t perform as good as the new generation anchors. I consider a reliable anchor, certified shackles and and matching chain the most important safety equipment on board, so in my book this is not where I would compromise.

You might find a second hand new generation anchor on blocket.se
I just checked Watski.se, and the Rocna 15 is approximately sek 4600,- Might be a bit more than you want to pay, but believe me, It´s cheap insurance! Don´t know the price in Sweden, but the Mantus might be even better, but having just a few nights of experience with these anchors, I´m reluctant to say something I can´t back up by first hand experience. My gut feeling however says they are second to none. The Rocna, I´ve used extensively (both 33 and 40 kg versions) for almost a decade now, and know they´re worth the cost, and then some. I would buy any second hand new generation anchor I could get my hand on for a reasonable price. It´s a huge upgrade no matter which model you choose.

Regarding a windlass: I don´t know your physics, but in my experience you don´t need a windlass for a 15 kg hook. Sure it´s comfortable, but not essencial. When I was a bit younger and crewed on vessels your size, I made sure the skipper motored slowly up to the anchor while I retrieved the chain by hand. When the bow was on top of the anchor, I cleated the chain (this was before I knew the existence of chain stoppers or chain hooks) Then, we let the engine break the anchor loose in reverse, before retrieving the remaining chain and anchor by hand. If the task is too heavy for your back, you can always fasten a rolling hitch or a chain hook on the chain as close to the bow as possible, and lead the line back to a cockpit winch, retrieving a few meters at the time before fastening a new rolling hitch as close to the bow. Repeat until the hook is safely on board. A bit time consuming I admit, but it works. I tried this with a Bruce 30 many years ago, and no longer fear the day my windlass goes on vacation. If unbearable heavy, the trick is to lift a few meters by the genoa winch before motoring out of the bay, so you don’t risk catching your neighbour´s chain. Afterwards, you´ve got all the time in the world to retrieve the rest before setting sail.

Feel free to send a PM in Swedish if you need further description. Might be easier, as English isn´t my (and possibly not your) native tongue.

Take care, and good luck with the preparations!

Best regards,
-kjetil-

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by gmakhs

I really can't believe that people.pay over 500 dollars for a piece of iron you dump in the sea , the cost doesn't justify the performance

How about if it prevents your multi thousand dollars boat from ending up on the rocks?

To save money, look for a good anchor second hand. Anchors don't wear out.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

To save money, look for a good anchor second hand. Anchors don't wear out.

You need to define "good anchor"
I see plenty of crap anchors second hand but very rarely will a good anchor be gotten rid of.

As for wearing out they can do.
As an example, pivot point in a plough gets worn and makes it drag even more than before.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

You need to define "good anchor"
I see plenty of crap anchors second hand but very rarely will a good anchor be gotten rid of.

As for wearing out they can do.
As an example, pivot point in a plough gets worn and makes it drag even more than before.

The pivot on a plough is probably the only example. And it's not what I'd call a good anchor.

You do occasionally see third gen anchors for sale. Anyway, whatever.

[Uncle Bob]

OP, now is probably a good time to check out the video's of anchors setting done by Steve of SV Panope, one of the best presentations of actual anchors setting there is, all done in the same location using the same parameters.

[Cheechako]

The Danforth will hold at least 2 x more than anything else in sand, but are ungainly to handle . Little value in selling it. Save it for when you are in a beach location and a big blow is predicted.
The Bruce is great in hard bottoms/rocks, but has very low holding in sand, just moves right through..
The Delta is good but doesn't do well with a 180 degree windshift. I like them though, set immediately and hold very well in the original direction.
Know the limitations of each and you'll be fine. On a budget Delta used are great price. I sailed the Caribe twice on a mono and a cat with them.

[txg]

Get a Buegel (german version of Rocna or Mantus) copy from here:


https://www.svb24.com/en/bracket-anc...zed-steel.html


We have the 16kg version on a 35ft/8t boat, cruising full time with this as a main anchor. Held fine in gusts over 55kts.


At around 100 bucks this is an acceptable price for a galvanized anchor. Prices for Rocna and Mantus are absolutely insane.

[alluringarctic]

Now finally a them that I can chime in on. Most of the posters here are from US where Mantus etc are considered a religion... Prices in Europe are different.

Anchor: The Kobra has been very well regarded in the European anchor tests, comparable with Rocna etc., but is still a "name brand" compared to a no-name copy. You can have ie. 16 kg Kobra for way less than 200 €.

Windlass: If you're even moderately fit and ready for some work then NO windlass because we are talking BUDGET anchoring. Windlass, especially an electric one, adds a huge expense and complexity (maintenance needs etc) to anchor setup. If it is windy when leaving anchorage you simply motor over the anchor while taking in rode hand over hand. If you're alone you can lead the line back to your genoa winch (see below).

Anchor rode: The modern anchoring knowledge says that you best invest as much of the weight in the anchor and that in strong winds the so called capillary effect does not help you. Primary need for chain is for chafe resistance against sea bottom. That is why I would consider as heavy anchor as possible, about 20 metres of chain (I would go with long-link G40, "least weight for money"), and rest of it rope. The added benefit of using mostly rope like this is that if things are hairy and you're alone then you can lead the line back to a mast/genoa winch and use that, without having to use a chain hook or similar.

Personally I'm currently in Northern Norway often anchoring in 20 meters deep. Boat is 11 meters monohull, weight 7 tons. I have a 20 kg Kobra, 20 meters of G40 chain and 110 meters of 18mm poly rope. Very simple system that has proven itself in Arctic conditions (see my signature). To each of their own, but this is one way of doing it !

EDIT: Oops, signature probably doesn't work for new members, here's the link: http://www.instagram.com/alluringarctic

[Pete7]

Alluringarctic, I have just had a look at the SVB24 site, prices have certainly go up over the last few years, I didn't pay anything like that for our Rocna. Some options then:

Kobra 16kg.........Euro 175
Rocna 15kg.........Euro 400
FX 16................ Euro 325
Delta 15kg..........Euro 230
Bugel 16kg.........Euro 135
Mantus 16kg.......GBP 341

Given the huge range of anchoring conditions Jonas is likely to meet on his travels, I still think 40m of 8mm calibrated chain and a manual windlass is the way to go. If he is single handed particularly so as the other options of running the engine in fwd or using a sheet winch and dragging chain along the deck isn't great. Certainly one good anchor is going to be essential.

A second hand manual windlass from somewhere in Europe should be that expensive. I would start on e bay or here as they have a huge barge full of used marine equipment: Riverside Boatyard - Hamble river moorings and the home of the Chandlery Barge

Pete