Bruce or CQR

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Thanks Jammer for the summary but as far as the CQR, my boat usually goes through a couple tide changes every night I'm out. (tide change about every 6 hours here)

This swings the boat at minimum 180 degrees and many times 360 between wind and tide and the anchor has done fine.

You ask for advice, I give you the best science we have, the rest is up to you.

Originally Posted by thomm225

The CQR has always worked except once when I was in a terrible spot and waves started breaking during the night.
[...] around this time the anchor started to drag.

If that is consistent with your idea of "the anchor has done fine" then you and I have different expectations of our ground tackle.

Originally Posted by MicHughV

I am a very big Bruce proponent....and have been for 40 years....I love that darned anchor and have never ever had the slightest dragging problem with it...never, not once, in most any kind of bottom. I carry two of them and would never consider changing....not for anything.

Nothing wrong with the Bruce if you have room for one that is appropriately sized.

Like any anchor, your rode selection is important [...] Setting your anchor correctly is another art...don't blame your tools, if you are a bad craftsman. [...] anchor selection is a highly personal topic, and every sailor has his/her opinion.

See now this is where we disagree because in recent years people have experimented in a controlled way and there's been more use of underwater video cameras to understand what actually happens during anchoring. There's a significant and growing understanding based on science and facts. It's not highly personal, it's not like buying a bicycle saddle where there are anatomical differences between individuals that affect the decision.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by thomm225

The CQR sort of goes along with my boat selection.......old style full keel (cutaway)

Have you seen my boat? https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/rafiki-37

There is a new-gen anchor that fits just about any boat's anchor roller/holder. I recommend getting the one that fits best.

Originally Posted by thomm225

When I was racing beach cats in the 90's, I still (was allowed) hung out with the monohull guys on the dock.

My beach cats were tied down just above high water at our apartment along the bayou there on Pensacola but the hangout for all sailors was the dock.

Many of the boats had CQR's and were usually owned by the most experienced sailors.

Many times these guys would critique every boat and anchor at the dock as we drank "a few" beers.

I think the pertinent fact in your message is the date: "in the 90's...". That was 30 years ago. Things have changed with anchor design and construction. The CQR was the top-of-the-line in its day, and it's still an OK anchor. But knowledge and technology have moved on from there. The newer anchors are simply better in almost every way.

You can definitely make a CQR work. I know because I had them for over a decade on two different boats. They do work -- just not as well as the newer anchors.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Jammer

If that is consistent with your idea of "the anchor has done fine" then you and I have different expectations of our ground tackle.

.

The spot I was in was anchored in was a tough spot and I was between mud and hard ground. Just behind a barrier Island with heavy winds and waves coming in off the ocean from the SE. big winds started around midnight. There is a very strong current just off from there also. It the channel under the high rise part of the bridge which isn't shown in that picture.

I was anchored to the far right in the picture just inside the bridge and in a bit where you can see the lower water. Picture is during high tide.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Have you seen my boat? https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/rafiki-37

There is a new-gen anchor that fits just about any boat's anchor roller/holder. I recommend getting the one that fits best.



I think the pertinent fact in your message is the date: "in the 90's...". That was 30 years ago. Things have changed with anchor design and construction. The CQR was the top-of-the-line in its day, and it's still an OK anchor. But knowledge and technology have moved on from there. The newer anchors are simply better in almost every way.

You can definitely make a CQR work. I know because I had them for over a decade on two different boats. They do work -- just not as well as the newer anchors.

I may get a new gen anchor before I leave the area to cruise for a while but plan to use what have for the next few years here.

Next item on the list is rigging. It's near 20 years old I'm guessing that is if I don't buy a larger boat.

You boat is very nice btw.

I have been looking at this one.

A Southern Cross 31

https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/91689

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by thomm225

You boat is very nice btw.

I have been looking at this one.

A Southern Cross 31

https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/91689

Thanks, we love the Rafiki.

I only know the Southern Cross by reputation, but they are said to be excellent quality sea boats. From the pics this one looks very nice indeed. If I were a solo cruiser, instead of a couple, I'd definitely consider something like this.

[Dsanduril]

Originally Posted by Jammer

...See now this is where we disagree because in recent years people have experimented in a controlled way and there's been more use of underwater video cameras to understand what actually happens during anchoring. There's a significant and growing understanding based on science and facts. It's not highly personal, it's not like buying a bicycle saddle where there are anatomical differences between individuals that affect the decision.

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Have you seen my boat? https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/rafiki-37...I think the pertinent fact in your message is the date: "in the 90's...". That was 30 years ago. Things have changed with anchor design and construction. The CQR was the top-of-the-line in its day, and it's still an OK anchor. But knowledge and technology have moved on from there. The newer anchors are simply better in almost every way.

You can definitely make a CQR work. I know because I had them for over a decade on two different boats. They do work -- just not as well as the newer anchors.

And the very person who does much of that research has posted in this very thread about his conclusions on a genuine CQR. If you go look at the summary data across all bottom types and tests the CQR (old tech) beats the Rocna (new tech). Where it fails is cobblestones and soft mud, but in sandy mud, for instance, it exceeds new gen favorites such as the Sarca, Mantus, and Manson.

I know people love to bash the CQR here, and I myself have moved on to a newer generation anchor, but if you want to follow the science then follow the science - as an all around anchor the CQR isn't terrible and in some conditions exceeds newer anchors.

[Joh.Ghurt]

Originally Posted by zeehag

if oil rigs are secure with bruce we all are... 45 kts winds i can sleep as my bruce with chain holds my formosa well, even in bad holding, is silt over river bottom.

This is a little naive. The efficiency of anchors gets a lot better with weight. So while the Bruce anchor is a very fine anchor for an oil rig or a supertanker, this doesn't mean your 35 pound version will hold your ship well. The topic is surprisingly complicated, but in general it's safe to assume that all modern anchors for small crafts (Spade, Rocna, Excel ) are substantially better than the classic CQR, Bruce etc. Upgrading is worth the hassle.

One exception is the Fortress, which isn't that great under most conditions like all the other classic models, it still is one of the best under some conditions. I'd say a Fortress is a preferred choice as a secondary anchor.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Dsanduril

And the very person who does much of that research has posted in this very thread about his conclusions on a genuine CQR. If you go look at the summary data across all bottom types and tests the CQR (old tech) beats the Rocna (new tech). Where it fails is cobblestones and soft mud, but in sandy mud, for instance, it exceeds new gen favorites such as the Sarca, Mantus, and Manson.

I know people love to bash the CQR here, and I myself have moved on to a newer generation anchor, but if you want to follow the science then follow the science - as an all around anchor the CQR isn't terrible and in some conditions exceeds newer anchors.

I'm not bashing the CQR. I said, in my assessment, it is not as good in general compared to most of the newer anchors out there. I take Steve (Panope)'s tests very seriously. They're one of the best out there that I know, but they are only one. My assessment is based on my direct experience with these anchors, and a compilation of other tests.

[MicHughV]

I've never known an anchor discussion to be calm, thoughtful and meaningful. Everyone has their opinion, based on fact, superstition, ancient lore, testing, what mom sez, and whether the monkey was tight.

[zeehag]

Originally Posted by Joh.Ghurt

This is a little naive. The efficiency of anchors gets a lot better with weight. So while the Bruce anchor is a very fine anchor for an oil rig or a supertanker, this doesn't mean your 35 pound version will hold your ship well. The topic is surprisingly complicated, but in general it's safe to assume that all modern anchors for small crafts (Spade, Rocna, Excel ) are substantially better than the classic CQR, Bruce etc. Upgrading is worth the hassle.

One exception is the Fortress, which isn't that great under most conditions like all the other classic models, it still is one of the best under some conditions. I'd say a Fortress is a preferred choice as a secondary anchor.

35 pound anchors are for light vessels..i use 30 kg bruce and want a 20 kg bruce. the only folks have met using 30 pound anchors are e sailing 27 ft boats.
cqr is a good kedging anchor to move boat without engine in shallows or off a shoal. my 45 cqr worked great on a 35 ft ericson.
fortress is an aluminum danforth type anchor.. unsuitable on west coast unless you want to pass other anchored boats at speed, and go for distance medal in dragging competition.
knock off bruces are not adequate. something wrong with the claw itself. bruce, originals are the best.
it IS all about skill and all chain rode as wella s using the correct weight anchor for boat.. the weight anchors pushed by mfgr are inadequate.

[LakeSuperior]

IMHO, the strongest feature of the new generation of anchors, like the Rocna, is that they reset much better than the older anchors like the CQR's. This capability grants additional peace of mind, a seriously valuable commodity when cruising.

My anchoring technique is probably OK when I make the initial set. However, a 180 wind shift during the night requires the anchor to reset. Sleeping through the wind shift with old technology anchors could have bad consequences. That said, I still get up for a wind shift anyway.

Same situation with tides however preplanning can help to mitigate problems on a reset.

[thomm225]

Seeing a different anchor on the bow of my boat other than the trusty CQR will seem very odd if I ever decide to change it.

[boatpoker]

Take another look at the slop around the pin in that shot of your CQR.
I wouldn't sleep well with that.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Take another look at the slop around the pin in that shot of your CQR.
I wouldn't sleep well with that.

Yeah I know what it looks like without another look.

The boat in the slip next to mine which hasn't been used in the last 5 years has a nice almost new CQR of the same size as mine on it's bow and it has almost no wear.

[boatman61]

Throw your Bruces my way if they're the real deal..
I Luv em..