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Old 15-04-2010, 12:53   #1
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Beugel

OK, I am on a roller coaster ride with the anchor decision...

I was going to go with the Rocna and not go with the mansons because I read the manson was a copy of the rocna (and it was implied the rocna designer was uh er scammed out of the design). But as some posters pointed out the rocna and the mansons are clearly similar to the buegel. Now I guess this go on forever, where did buegel get its design? frankly I am getting exhausted by the whole story. BUT before I make a final selection for my main anchor I was wonder if buegel are even made anymore..I can't find them on the web.

Sorry if this has been posted already, I did a search and could not find where they are purchased, I saw that Maxingout got his in Australia but didn't know if it was new or used.

Erika

PS Some of the other reasons for choosing the rocna is I do not like the shank on the manson, though I could learn to live with it.
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Old 15-04-2010, 14:41   #2
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Yet another anchor thread! This will make some people erotically aroused.

The Manson and the Rocna are both copies of the Buegel which is a copy of the Spade which is a copy of . . . well, never mind.

I was actually going to go with the Manson just because all the Rocna propaganda irritated me.

But the bottom line is that the Buegel, by all accounts, is less effective than the Rocna or Manson.

So who cares what was first, or who copied whom? They all copy each other. Just pick the one you like best (or which is cheapest, or best made).
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Old 15-04-2010, 14:45   #3
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Erika, just go with the Manson, save the money, get it locally, and enjoy a great nights sleep at anchor. You will not regret it, IMHO.
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Old 15-04-2010, 15:25   #4
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The Rocna isn't a copy of the Beugel: Rocna took the idea of the loop on the Beugel (beugel means loop) but the rest is very different. The Beugel isn't a copy of anything, while the Manson is a straight copy of the Rocna.

Cristian would buy the Manson... I would buy the Rocna... both work equally well but I agree with Erika: the shaft of the Manson looks no good to me either.

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Old 15-04-2010, 15:36   #5
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I'd also buy either the Manson or the Rocna and find something else to worry about. They're both fine anchors.

Sailboats have been around for so long that it's almost impossible to find true invention. Everyone builds on the shoulders of those who came before - usually by combining several existing ideas in a slightly new manner.

Take the pictured Viking anchor. If you replace the rock with a galvanized curved pointed steel plate you're pretty close to a Mason/Rocna - rollbar and all. I bet the Vikings would have thought of the idea if they had any steel.

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Old 15-04-2010, 15:36   #6
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Main reason for my recommendation is that you can stroll down to the local Evil Empire, I mean West Marine (Erika is in Texas) and buy the correct size Manson IN STOCK without shipping charges. I truly believe you will not go wrong with either anchor. Your gonna save $50 - $100 shipping that way...
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Old 15-04-2010, 15:46   #7
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I prefer the Manson because it's easy to spell. Buegel aka Beugel aka Bügel aka Bueghel - not so much.
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Old 15-04-2010, 17:26   #8
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The beugel is still being made in stainless by WASI ( WASI Anchors ). Quite a bit of money. I think all other versions of it are home made or locally made by small businesses in the Med and Australia. There is no patent and the design is simple plate steel, so I don't think there is much money to be made in producing them wide-scale.

Last time I was in West Marine, they had both Rocna and Manson Supreme and the Rocna was less expensive (I was surprised). It seems that Rocna has lowered their prices to be more competitive, so the price argument is an old one now.

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Old 15-04-2010, 17:52   #9
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I was introduced to the Beugel anchor in New Caledonia by German sailors who told me that the Beugel was the result of an anchor design competition in Germany. The person who came up with the design won a prize for his innovative work. I would think that the German contingent on this forum could confirm exactly how the design came to be.

I had mine constructed by a sheet metal shop in Australia, but I have met Ozzies who welded up their own Beugel using specifications that they got off the internet.

It's a relatively easy anchor to construct as every piece of it is flat steel. You decide whether you want mild steel or high tension steel, cut it out, weld it together, drill the holes, attach the loops, and the job is done. People who made them did not feel like it was a big deal. But then Ozzies can do just about anything they set their mind to. They are can do folks.

After you assemble the anchor, you get it hot dip galvanized. It's not rocket science, but if you don't have a way to cut steel and if you don't know how to weld, then I guess it is a big deal.

I paid about $300 USD for my seventy pound Beugel in Australia. I opted for mild steel rather than high tensile steel, and so far it has never bent when hooking on rocks.
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Old 15-04-2010, 18:29   #10
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I looked at the Rocna and Manson and decided to go with the original Rocna. I just didn't like the Manson shank because it didn't look as strong to me.

I purchased my Rocna at West Marine - no shipping or delivery charge at all. They even take a few ten's off for a Port Supply account and allow a no-questions-asked return if it doesn't fit or you just don't like it.

I'm very happy that I went with the Rocna.
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Old 15-04-2010, 18:50   #11
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My bad! If West has the Rocna now, GO FOR IT! Honestly, I dont think a Manson shank has ever failed, but I understand the seaman's eye, and can see where you are coming from. If their price has fallen to be competitive, by all means, the Rocna. Like I said, you will sleep better lying to either...
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Old 15-04-2010, 19:45   #12
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Well that answers my question, I like the design of the beugel but I do not want to build an anchor.... so an off the shelf Manson or rocna. My west marine has a rocna 33lb on order and has a 35lb manson in stock. When the rocna comes in I will compare them side by side.
Once I have my anchor I will then start to design my anchor roller that I will fabricate..but that is another thread.
Thanks again, you all are great.
Erika
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Old 17-04-2010, 11:20   #13
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Rocnas are now made in China that is why the price came down. I believe Spade had the basic design first, Rocna added the hoop.
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Old 17-04-2010, 11:38   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
The Rocna isn't a copy of the Beugel: Rocna took the idea of the loop on the Beugel (beugel means loop) but the rest is very different.
Yes, totally different, the triangular blade is slightly pointier

As you correctly point out, the buegel's buegel (loop) was the genuine innovation, followed by derivatives..

But as far as Erika's issue is concerned, much in science and art builds on existing knowledge, and this doesn't suggest either the original or derivative is better (or deserves your business more).
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Old 17-04-2010, 13:43   #15
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What ever anchor you decide on, FORGET the price... remember its an insurance policy for your boat and whats your boat worth.. Its the same reason I use ALL Hi-Test chain for thr rode... The chain might be a couple thousand.. The boat is worth 100k... its a No-Brainer.,
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