Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 11-06-2024, 10:53   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 67
Images: 3
Any real life experince downsizing from 3/8” BBB chain to 5/16 G40HT chain ?

Let’s talk anchor chain and windlass. I presently have about 150’ of 3/8” BBB chain on the Lofrans Airon windlass. It works fine for my sailing (US east coast). But the chain is rusted pretty bad and ready for a change out. I could just buy another 150’ of 3/8” BBB (240 lbs) or maybe really wanted 200’ of 3/8” BBB (320 lbs). (BTW I have a 66lb Spade Anchor) Even though I’ve already got a very loaded Jeanneau 43DS in “cruising mode” (probably 27, 000+ lbs) I don’t want to add too much weight to the bow, right now she sits pretty level so I’m not sure an additional 80 lbs will kill me but I still don’t want to add too much bow weight.

So here are my questions. How many people have downsized BBB chain one size and convert to G40 chain of the same strength. ? I thought about getting more length by going to 5/16” G40 chain where 250’ will still be less weight than 160’ of my 3/8” BBB ? Any of you old salt s and cruisers have an opinion or real life experiences?
tsenator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2024, 11:12   #2
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Rochester, NY
Boat: Chris Craft 381 Catalina
Posts: 6,596
Re: Any real life experince downsizing from 3/8” BBB chain to 5/16 G40HT chain ?

I haven't had 3/8 BBB on this boat, but I'm currently using 5/16 G43. I'd say it's plenty strong enough for your boat, so I'd definitely make the change. I'd always rather have more chain and a generously sized anchor over having heavier chain if it's one or the other.
rslifkin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2024, 11:30   #3
dlj
Registered User
 
dlj's Avatar

Join Date: May 2020
Location: Warwick NY
Boat: Belliure 41
Posts: 625
Re: Any real life experince downsizing from 3/8” BBB chain to 5/16 G40HT chain ?

Make sure your gypsy can handle the size difference.

dj
dlj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2024, 11:32   #4
Moderator
 
Pete7's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Solent, England
Boat: Moody 31
Posts: 18,596
Images: 22
Re: Any real life experince downsizing from 3/8” BBB chain to 5/16 G40HT chain ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsenator View Post
I presently have about 150’ of 3/8” BBB chain on the Lofrans Airon windlass.
Is a new gypsy available at a sensible price?
Pete7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2024, 12:41   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 67
Images: 3
Re: Any real life experince downsizing from 3/8” BBB chain to 5/16 G40HT chain ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete7 View Post
Is a new gypsy available at a sensible price?
Yeah it’s available. That’s part of my cost/value analysis.
tsenator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2024, 12:42   #6
Moderator
 
Jammer's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Minnesota
Boat: Tartan 3800
Posts: 5,115
Re: Any real life experince downsizing from 3/8” BBB chain to 5/16 G40HT chain ?

I have a Lofrans Cayman which takes the same chainwheels as your Airon I believe.


You will have to get a new chainwheel (unless you happen to have the incorrect one installed, which happened to me). They are available but may cost several hundred dollars unless you can find a deal somewhere (possible).


My boat came with 3/8 BBB and had the 5/16 HT chainwheel for whatever reason. I switched to 5/16 HT chain, and carry 275 feet. Works for me.


I don't think I've ever heard of any yacht being lost because a lighter anchor chain was installed. Occasionally there are yachts lost because the anchor chain is corroded or because the connection to the anchor comes apart but not because the chain was inherently too weak.
__________________
The best part of an adventure is the people you meet.
Jammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2024, 13:22   #7
Registered User
 
Marathon1150's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Boat: Beneteau Idylle 1150
Posts: 682
Images: 13
Re: Any real life experince downsizing from 3/8” BBB chain to 5/16 G40HT chain ?

About 15 years ago I replaced some BBB 5/16 chain with BBB 3/8. For a short period of time we owned two boats and the chain on the second boat was pretty rusty and did not inspire confidence. I replaced it with 5/16 G43. I wish that I had done the same on the first boat. The first boat now still has 200' of BBB 3/8" plus 300' of 5/8" 8-plait. I would be happier with 250' of 5/8 G43 but that would require changing the gypsy on a Lewmar H3 windlass so I will live with the 3/8" until it needs to be replaced and eat the extra cost of the new gypsy but be happier about more chain that is stronger and lighter than the 3/8" on the boat now.

To summarize, I would go 5/16 G43 if I were you.
__________________
Desolation Island is situated in a third region, somewhere between elsewhere and everywhere.
Jean-Paul Kauffmann
Marathon1150 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2024, 13:28   #8
Registered User
 
Kettlewell's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Boat: Finnsailer 38
Posts: 5,705
Re: Any real life experince downsizing from 3/8” BBB chain to 5/16 G40HT chain ?

If you're sailing on the East Coast you almost never need even 100 feet of chain out, so you could just go with that and have 200 feet of nylon attached for those very rare deep anchorages. Since I'm not planning on cruising far afield for awhile I have gone down to 50 feet of chain plus nylon, and it makes it very easy to anchor in most of the places I go. I haven't anchored in more than 15 feet of water in years.
__________________
JJKettlewell
"Go small, Go simple, Go now"
Kettlewell is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2024, 04:54   #9
Registered User
 
Kettlewell's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Boat: Finnsailer 38
Posts: 5,705
Re: Any real life experince downsizing from 3/8” BBB chain to 5/16 G40HT chain ?

By the way, I don't think I've ever deployed even 200 feet of rode anchoring from Maine to Colombia, South America and back. Sure, there are deep places you might need to anchor, but those situations are very rare. After carrying 300 feet of chain in the bow down to South America and back I realized that it was just rusting in the anchor locker and not helpful for sailing ability.
__________________
JJKettlewell
"Go small, Go simple, Go now"
Kettlewell is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2024, 05:17   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Rochester, NY
Boat: Chris Craft 381 Catalina
Posts: 6,596
Re: Any real life experince downsizing from 3/8” BBB chain to 5/16 G40HT chain ?

At the other end of the spectrum, around the Great Lakes it's not uncommon at all for us to have 150 - 200 feet out. Having more flexibility in where to anchor and ability to get away from the crowds is helpful. Typical anchoring depths for us vary between 15 and 50 feet and occasionally we've gone a little deeper.

Our record for depth was watching 4th of July fireworks one year and wanting to keep the boat aligned to the slight swell (and wind) rather than drifting. I took advantage of having 350+ feet of usable rode and dropped the hook in a little over 120 feet of water.
rslifkin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2024, 10:16   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Schuylerville, NY
Boat: Wellcraft portofino 43’
Posts: 457
Re: Any real life experince downsizing from 3/8” BBB chain to 5/16 G40HT chain ?

Our boat is about the same length and weight as yours. For many years, we've used 30' of 5/16 chain then 200' of 9/16" three strand nylon. We frequently anchor for the night or for a few days and have never felt the rode was inadequate or marginal, even when the wind has demonstrated Mother Nature's wrath.
David Mathis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2024, 12:14   #12
Registered User
 
Shrew's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,153
Re: Any real life experince downsizing from 3/8” BBB chain to 5/16 G40HT chain ?

I use the Rocna sizing for both anchor and chain. They claim to already oversize their recommendations.

Based on a 43ft boat @ 27,000lb you're solidly in the 3/8" for chain. I'd replace with G4 3/8" which has a higher WLL and lower weight/ft.

https://rocna.com/anchor-sizing/
Shrew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2024, 12:29   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Rochester, NY
Boat: Chris Craft 381 Catalina
Posts: 6,596
Re: Any real life experince downsizing from 3/8” BBB chain to 5/16 G40HT chain ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrew View Post
I use the Rocna sizing for both anchor and chain. They claim to already oversize their recommendations.

Based on a 43ft boat @ 27,000lb you're solidly in the 3/8" for chain. I'd replace with G4 3/8" which has a higher WLL and lower weight/ft.

https://rocna.com/anchor-sizing/
Personally I think Rocna's chain sizing recommendations are overkill. They're likely sizing the chain to the best case holding power of the anchor, which I think is pointless. The chain should be sized to the load the boat can put on it (based on windage, etc.). My boat, for example, would need north of 60 kt winds to exceed the working load of 5/16" G43 chain with the boat yawed 30* off the wind as a worst case. Realistically, the working load would probably not be reached until 70 kts or so (plus there's still a significant safety factor beyond the working load). This is based on reasonable shelter from sea state and an effective snubber setup, and some data I can find for real world measured wind loading on boats.

Unless you're sizing the anchor, attachment points, etc. to withstand anchoring through a hurricane a 40-ish foot boat is very unlikely to need bigger than 5/16" G43 chain (and 5/16" G70 would always be an option to get a bit more strength).
rslifkin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2024, 15:13   #14
Registered User
 
desodave's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Courtenay BC
Boat: Bavaria Vision 42
Posts: 712
Re: Any real life experince downsizing from 3/8” BBB chain to 5/16 G40HT chain ?

I went from 3/8 to 5/16 G4 on my previous Hunter 38 when I replaced the chain after 15 years ... never did figure out what 3/8 it actually was. The H38 dry weight was around 18,000. Only thing I noticed after the change (before selling the boat) was that the lighter chain allowed the boat to move around more in the wind or a current change. I have 5/16 G4 with a 25kg (55 lbs) anchor on our current Bavaria Vision 42 which has a dry weight of 21,600 ... the boat sails all over the place at anchor so puts some additional stress on it but I've never had any problems (yet at least!!). We have 250 ft of chain plus 150' of 9/16 three strand but then we have a lot of deep Pacific Coast anchorages to deal with.
desodave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-06-2024, 02:26   #15
Senior Cruiser
 
GordMay's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 49,902
Images: 241
Re: Any real life experince downsizing from 3/8” BBB chain to 5/16 G40HT chain ?

Lofrans Gypsies ➥ https://www.lofrans.com/product/80-gypsies/5103-gypsy
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
CAT Sailing experince in Savannah, ga Gboy Multihull Sailboats 3 14-05-2014 03:40
Downsizing Chain Kelldog Multihull Sailboats 13 08-10-2010 07:20
Experince with Spartite on Masts - Mast Installation/Removal geoffschultz Construction, Maintenance & Refit 3 08-12-2008 15:45
Got the motivation and money but not enough experince SVLiv Meets & Greets 6 09-09-2007 07:19
Experince Using Gortex Thread with Sunbrella geoffschultz Construction, Maintenance & Refit 10 08-02-2007 03:40

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:31.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.