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Old 10-01-2020, 20:46   #1
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Anchors, Guns and Strippers!!!!

OK now that I have your attention maybe just anchors... Here's my dilemma. "They that know" or at least the ones I respect their experience and opinions espouse using an anchor as a primary bower that is one if not two sizes up from what the manufacturer recommends. They would be Harries, Kretschmer, Vigor, and others. I forget who said it but put consecutively bigger anchors on until people on the dock walk by and laugh how big the anchor is and you then have the right size. I have a ridiculously heavy boat with a butt ugly dinghy davit/arch/solar panel farm support/helicopter pad plus an extra tall full enclosure on a center cockpit of a Tayana V42 CC. So lots of windage. Hell the sail cover on the main alone has over 50ft.sq/ of canvas exposed. The boat is 33000lbs unloaded. Add all the crap for cruising and maybe come in around 40K lbs. Depends on how much beer we load on. SO. Other than the extra weight of 23 lbs is there any reason to not use an oversize anchor? The windlass can handle it, there is plenty of room for it on the roller and in the locker. Even the longer shank to furler clearance works out OK. I prefer my best bower to also be my storm anchor. I will have a large fortress with 10' chain and 400' 3/4" Brait as a kedge or as a soft mud secondary anchor.



My current dilemma and purpose of post is to gather the hive wisdom of not using a #6 Sarca Excel (65#/30KG) which is the recommendation of the dealer but to use a two size up and go with the #8 Sarca Excel (88#/40KG) which my gut is telling me is fine.



Any response welcome. Flames, shames and anything else also welcome. I have no problem with people laughing at my boat or me for that matter. I do like dropping, laying out chain properly, slowly digging in and then checking the set of the anchor. Then pretty much not have to worry about it and get a decent sleep without the anchor alarm coming on.


Thanks in advance for any comments



Al
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Old 10-01-2020, 21:07   #2
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Re: Anchors, Guns and Strippers!!!!

You will NEVER wake up at 2AM as a front blows though worried that your anchor is too big--never, ever.

Most anchor manufacturers who are playing fair will post a size recommendation for their anchors with an idea of what kind of conditions it is good for. Without that information the recommendation is useless.

As way of example, Rocna sizing tables are clear that they are good for 50 knots. For a real cruising boat I consider that insufficient, and the idea of going up a size or two is a good one.

On the other hand Mantus size tables give three sizes a "lunch hook", and standard size, and a storm anchor. You'll find the storm anchor size recommendations to be sufficient for cruising and don't need to bumped up. I really give them credos for honest size recommendations.

On our 53 foot ketch we use a Mantus 105 lb anchor (an upgrade from a Rocna 88lb) For your boat anchoring in whatever comes your way, the 65 seems light, the 88 feels in the right ballpark.
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Old 10-01-2020, 23:04   #3
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Re: Anchors, Guns and Strippers!!!!

Hi, 32 ft fisher so lots of windage as well, #5 sarca excel, sticks like s**t to a blanket so at least your choice is great, as to the size, send an email to Rex at anchor right and put the question to him, you will receive an honest no BS answer.
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Old 10-01-2020, 23:16   #4
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Re: Anchors, Guns and Strippers!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scubaseas View Post
Other than the extra weight of 23 lbs is there any reason to not use an oversize anchor? The windlass can handle it,
It is nice to be able to retrieve the anchor without the windlass. In which case lighter is better.
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Old 10-01-2020, 23:31   #5
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Re: Anchors, Guns and Strippers!!!!

My view, and recommendation, is always to go with the largest 'new-gen' bower anchor your boat and crew can reasonably manage. By "reasonable" I mean your crew and anchor system can manage without exceptional or unusual effort.

If I was in your shoes I'd go for the bigger bower.
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Old 10-01-2020, 23:52   #6
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Re: Anchors, Guns and Strippers!!!!

So if I read correctly your current is a large fortress with 10’ chain, however you are considering the sarca excel? I would go with the 88lb sarca however would add minimum of 100 ft of chain..... 200 feet even better!

Good luck!
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Old 11-01-2020, 03:26   #7
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Re: Anchors, Guns and Strippers!!!!

@Scubaseas,

Look for a comment from Wotname. He has used a Sarca on his boat before he sold it.

It is an anchor i would try out. Look at Videos of Anchors Setting, a thread by Panope, who took a number of videos of anchors setting.

I'm not up on the numbers given to the Sarcas, but if your suggestion is 2 numbers higher than their suggestion, it is probably a good choice. Assuming you're in Australia, of course....because of the shipping.

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Old 11-01-2020, 03:39   #8
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Re: Anchors, Guns and Strippers!!!!

Nobody recommends a stripper 2 sizes too big.
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Old 11-01-2020, 03:42   #9
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Re: Anchors, Guns and Strippers!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost Horizons View Post
It is nice to be able to retrieve the anchor without the windlass. In which case lighter is better.
Unless you ALWAYS anchor in shallow water, the main part of the lifting loads are chain and a few pounds more in the anchor isn't a deciding factor. It is good to have thought out an alternative method to the windlass ahead of time. Most of us use a deck winch and a long line with a chain hook on it for such efforts. Slow, but with great lifting power.

And IMO there is nothing wrong with upsizing over mfg recommended weights. For the Sarca, whose reco weights are fairly conservative, perhaps only one size up would do, but two would only hurt your wallet, not your boat! We've encountered a few bottoms where the extra fluke area would have been welcome, and weight is helpful in penetrating grass or shingle bottoms.

And who cares what ignorant observers think about your anchor? They don't depend on it for their well being as you do. A rude gesture in response to their comments is appropriate at times.

So go ahead and honour your inner feelings about the hook... buy a biggun.

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Old 11-01-2020, 03:42   #10
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Re: Anchors, Guns and Strippers!!!!

Quote:
So if I read correctly your current is a large fortress with 10í chain, however you are considering the sarca excel? I would go with the 88lb sarca however would add minimum of 100 ft of chain..... 200 feet even better!
Thanks to all for the replies.

Primary bower will be on 200' of 3/8" G4 plus 150' 3/4" plait. The large Fortress would be a kedge/mud/secondary anchor. I also have a third anchor and rode at the stern.

New to me boat came with one 44# Lewmar Claw on 200' of 5/16" chain (no markings) and one knock off 45#ish Bruce on 90' of 5/16" Chinesium chain and 150' of 1/2" 3 strand. Not fond of the Bruce especially that small. Choice for me was either Spade or Sarca Excel. Bigger Sacra Excel will fit roller better and would be easier to re-galvanize if needed. I used a Delta for many years on my old boat without but one complaint. I also consider the 5/16" chain to be a bit undersized for 42' and 40000#. So new gypsy and rodes.

Appreciate the validation that bigger is better when it comes to a primary anchor.
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Old 11-01-2020, 04:12   #11
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Re: Anchors, Guns and Strippers!!!!

Quote:
It is good to have thought out an alternative method to the windlass ahead of time.
Indeed.....Chain hook, chain stopper. Big a** Milwaukee angle drill, Primary sheet winch.

Sacra Excel and Spade are virtually the same price with the Spade slightly higher considering shipping. Sarca has a dealer in BC Canada. Comparable two size up Spade is a tad lighter but longer than the the Excel and may hit the furler on the way up. Boat is currently in Texas but heading for North East Coast US. Use will be East Coast (Nova Scotia to FL) for a year or two then "across the pond" for a bit.

Agree 100% on the SV Panope videos. Best 42 minutes ever spent on YouTube.

Again thanks to all for your input. Greatly appreciated.
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Old 11-01-2020, 04:13   #12
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Re: Anchors, Guns and Strippers!!!!

No, there is nothing wrong with oversizing the anchor from the manufacturer’s recommendation. In fact, this is exactly what most long distance cruising boats do. People tend to think of the extra ultimate holding power as only being useful in extreme conditions, and this is certainly a help, but the extra holding ability allows the safe use of anchorages with more marginal substrates and at shorter scopes in more commonly encountered wind conditions. This considerably expands the locations where the boat can be anchored.

Mike has the best sizing recommendation:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
My view, and recommendation, is always to go with the largest 'new-gen' bower anchor your boat and crew can reasonably manage. By "reasonable" I mean your crew and anchor system can manage without exceptional or unusual effort.

If I was in your shoes I'd go for the bigger bower.
Your proposed 40 kg anchor on a 42 foot boat is not particuarly outrageous. The quote about people laughing while walking along the dock or marina was originally made by Steve Dashew. He fitted a 110 kg (240 lb) anchor on his FPB 64 power boat. These are narrow, relatively low windage vessels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scubaseas View Post
Any response welcome. Flames, shames and anything else also welcome. I have no problem with people laughing at my boat or me for that matter. I do like dropping, laying out chain properly, slowly digging in and then checking the set of the anchor. Then pretty much not have to worry about it and get a decent sleep without the anchor alarm coming on.l
A larger anchor provides great additional security, but don’t become too complacent, especially when taking advantage of the improved performance by using more marginal locations. Anchoring is still never 100% secure. I have dived on enough anchors to see situations where even the best anchor will struggle and this is not always obvious from the bow.

So to sum up, there is nothing wrong or even very unusual about your choice of anchor size.

Anchor design is always a controversial subject, but personally I would have more confidence in a Mantus, Rocna and steel Spade. These are all excellent designs so at least consider these alternatives. However, these models have a larger fluke area than the Sarca Excel so check carefully how they fit if you decide to choose one of these models especially the Mantus that has a long tapered fluke, which together with the large roll bar makes it physically a large anchor for the weight.
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Old 11-01-2020, 05:50   #13
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Re: Anchors, Guns and Strippers!!!!

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but personally I would have more confidence in a Mantus, Rocna and steel Spade. These are all excellent designs so at least consider these alternatives.
Thanks for your input. I looked at both the Mantus and have a Rocna on my old boat. I'm a recent Mainuh and am finding the Rocna and presumably any rollbar type anchor can have a tough time resetting in kelp and the sticky mud often found here. The Interweb has some opinions on reset issues for both. The weight Mantus (M1) I would like has a shank that is (just barely) too long for my boat. Ditto the Spade.

I am down to Spade or Excel. The Excel will fit better as the shank is shorter than the Spade. The Spade to my knowledge can not be re-galvanized without the extra cost of melting out and re-pouring the lead in the tip. I also note several comments online (so they must be true) about the Spade rusting early in it's life. From what I can tell the Excel may hold better than the Spade on short scope which I don't normally do unless forced to. Think Great Salt Pond, Block Island on a summer weekend. I am sure any you mentioned like Mantus (presumably M1), Rocna and Spade might perform better is soupy mud than the Excel but that's when the large Fortress would come into play.
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Old 11-01-2020, 06:40   #14
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Re: Anchors, Guns and Strippers!!!!

Edit- I looked at the wrong anchor size chart: The SARCA sizing chart (http://www.anchorright.com.au/produc...-excel-anchor/) suggest a #6 for your boat. Personally I think with the new-gen anchors one should pick the largest suitable anchor based on the manufacturers recommendations (there is typically overlap in the charts). For instance, based on boat length, you'd take a #5, but boat weight suggests #6 - go for #6. If using an old-gen anchor (or having one as back-up), then upsize to the largest manageable anchor. If anchoring on hardpan, the deadweight is what keeps you anchored.
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Old 11-01-2020, 06:47   #15
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Re: Anchors, Guns and Strippers!!!!

How can you be too securely anchored? And why would you care what passers by think? Get the biggest and heaviest anchor that will fit and the most chain you can carry. You are the one who is responsible for the vessel and crew and you are the one who has to be able to sleep at night......
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