Anchors - Bigger is Better ?

[Delancey]

Originally Posted by Shas Cho

Ha!
It's been a long time since I thought of working behind a fresno!

Ours didn't have these nice roll bars, though-
it was just a big shovel
being dragged through the earth
with a boy with big, round eyes
hanging on the the single lever
as if his life depended on it.

Man, but those were some lo-o-ong days.
Letting a plow dig in might stop the tractor,
but letting the fresno dig in
was WAY more exciting!

- Shas

I grew up in the country, long before I moved in the city. My neighbor had what he called a dirt scoop and yes, if you want to stop a tractor dead in its tracks, I can't think of a better way than doing it with a scoop shape. Kinda funny huh? Go figure.

Now where's that convex shovel? I got a ditch that needs digging!

[Delancey]

Originally Posted by Shas Cho

It required a heap of skill
and was very hard work
(especially by today's standards).
The novice generally produced
an irregularly shaped, pock-marked chunk of land
that looked like a 200-boat Novices Rally
had just spend two weeks anchoring on it.
A good plow man was a known and respected figure.
And I'm not bragging when I say that-
I was never known as a good plow hand
I was just adequate for our own farm needs.

- Shas

Hard work? But I thought the convex shape and the horsey did all the hard work? Together don't they just want to dig straight to China? I thought all you had to do was lightly touch the handle thingy to keep the rig straight, you know like a tiller on a well balanced spade rudder?

You make it sound like it requires effort on behalf of the plow hand, say it isn't so!

[cheoah]

Originally Posted by Shas Cho

Howdy, cheoah!
That would be the mouldboard.
You are obviously a very technology-aware farmer.
Still, the current tendency to consider
the ploughshare/mouldboard ensemble as a single entity
(though it may in fact be manufactured as a single unit)
is ...
well, now that I think about it
perhaps that *is* the correct evolved nomenclature,
but when considering the shapes of the various parts
and the intended and real results of those shapes
it is useful to retain the historical terms.
The plowshare is convex,
to mouldboard is concave.

- Shas

Hi yes, you are definitely right, it was an early, quick post. Only difference is we call them moldboards and plowshares part of the rebellion

Shares (or points) are consumables, but moldboards last a long time. Ill retire with the same moldboards on that ford....

Then there are shins, landsides, and those are consumables too. I would wear a CQR down after about 10 acres I guess

The top link does affect angle of attack, so this does have a parallel in the plow anchor world, where angles and catenary are important. I have plowed with horses and oxen, and most of our walking plows you do use the handles to help w angle of attack. What a crappy job walking around in rough ground behind a team. Not so bad in good soils

[Delancey]

Originally Posted by darylat8750

No. The geometry of the moulboards pulls them down. This can be adjusted by the length of the third link on three point systems. The hydraulics use some of the downward force to add "weight" to the tractors drive wheels for added traction.

I have also used a walk behind plow. Grandad's did not have a gauge wheel. Depth was controlled manually by leverage on the "heal" of the moulboard. This could be eased by adjusting the angle of pull on the traces from the mule. (We weren't the wealthy folks with the draft horses. )

Um yeah, if you mean to say the geometry is such that plowshare cuts the soil and the mould boards deflect the soil sideways, I am with you there.

If you seriously think they pull the thing down then why the need to add hydraulics to add traction as you say? Shouldn't your magic geometry provide plenty of traction?

Maybe you farm fields of Jello? Soil only offers resistance, that's why you need to pull a plough with the proper angle of attack to get it to penetrate.

The dirt doesn't pull anything, it's dirt! It can only offer resistance and the resistance of the dirt can only deflect. To "pull" something the dirt would have to displace itself wouldn't it?, but it can't do that can it? Because it's dirt!

Good thing too, it resists the pull of gravity and stops us from falling to the center of the earth. They same way it resists the plough, get it?

BTW, nice use of leverage to control the depth! Keep it up!

[congo]

Delancy Wrote:

Um yeah, if you mean to say the geometry is such that plowshare cuts the soil and the mould boards deflect the soil sideways, I am with you there.

If you seriously think they pull the thing down then why the need to add hydraulics to add traction as you say? Shouldn't your magic geometry provide plenty of traction?

Maybe you farm fields of Jello? Soil only offers resistance, that's why you need to pull a plough with the proper angle of attack to get it to penetrate.

The dirt doesn't pull anything, it's dirt! It can only offer resistance and the resistance of the dirt can only deflect. To "pull" something the dirt would have to displace itself wouldn't it?, but it can't do that can it? Because it's dirt!

Good thing too, it resists the pull of gravity and stops us from falling to the center of the earth. They same way it resists the plough, get it?

BTW, nice use of leverage to control the depth! Keep it up!


Rex Wrote:

Your just a genius, intelligent, informative, very sensitve, but dont have a clue of what you are on about, at least I declared what I stuck in Horses, but shucks I
was only joking.

Regards Rex.

[Delancey]

Originally Posted by congo

Delancy Wrote:

Um yeah, if you mean to say the geometry is such that plowshare cuts the soil and the mould boards deflect the soil sideways, I am with you there.

If you seriously think they pull the thing down then why the need to add hydraulics to add traction as you say? Shouldn't your magic geometry provide plenty of traction?

Maybe you farm fields of Jello? Soil only offers resistance, that's why you need to pull a plough with the proper angle of attack to get it to penetrate.

The dirt doesn't pull anything, it's dirt! It can only offer resistance and the resistance of the dirt can only deflect. To "pull" something the dirt would have to displace itself wouldn't it?, but it can't do that can it? Because it's dirt!

Good thing too, it resists the pull of gravity and stops us from falling to the center of the earth. They same way it resists the plough, get it?

BTW, nice use of leverage to control the depth! Keep it up!


Rex Wrote:

Your just a genius, intelligent, informative, very sensitve, but dont have a clue of what you are on about, at least I declared what I stuck in Horses, but shucks I
was only joking.

Regards Rex.

Ok Rex, I haven't a clue. Please enlighten me. Explain to me why you think modern tractors use a three point hitch. In simple terms, so even I can understand.

Explain to me why the front wheels of the tractor aren't high in the sky when it pulls a plough? Explain to me why the top rod of a three point hitch should be a chain and why anyone who ever built a three point hitch is wrong for using a rod instead of chain?

[Maine Sail]

Originally Posted by congo

Come on Noelex , you know whose doing that Vid, further that is not a CQR but a Manson plough two very different breeds, further what is the conditon of the pivot.

Regards Rex.

Sorry Rex you are WRONG..

I made that video with my own anchors. It is a GENUINE CQR. I am NOT an anchor manufacturer, I am a boat owner & marine electrician. I buy and pay for all my anchors out of my own pocket.

I also conduct my own personal anchor testing in my own waters 99% of which is not published. I own my own 5000 pound digital load cell and have access to a very powerful power boat from which to conduct my testing...

Sometimes I find the testing so interesting that I make a video....

[Cotemar]

Holly cow, Maine Sail.
Is their anything you don't do?
Thanks for sharing those video's

[congo]

Clancey Wrote:

Ok Rex, I haven't a clue. Please enlighten me. Explain to me why you think modern tractors use a three point hitch. In simple terms, so even I can understand.

Explain to me why the front wheels of the tractor aren't high in the sky when it pulls a plough? Explain to me why the top rod of a three point hitch should be a chain and why anyone who ever built a three point hitch is wrong for using a rod instead of chain?

Rex Wrote:

Gee Delancey I feel really humbled for such a request, problem I see, if many far more intelligent people than me have bombarded you with information, if their efforts cannot convince you, I don’t think I can enlighten you with simple terms, when it comes to anchors it all looks very simple.

Keep on with your project, it will eventually balance out your enthusiasm and leave you in a more explorative state of mind.

Regards Rex.

[Maine Sail]

Originally Posted by congo

Rex Wrote:

Well if he never makes any mistakes he is obviously the only one that doesn’t? so even though the anchor is a Manson plough, he is right because he calls it a plough.

I think your editing in relation to you putting up that Vid is questionable.

Regards Rex.

More 100% false assumptions. Your net behavior is now beginning to look very Craig Smith-ish. You may want to do yourself a favor and stop that before you do damage to your companies reputation. BTW I would love to try one of your anchors but we can't seem to get them here....

I do NOT own any hinged plow anchors other than TWO GENUINE CQR's. Your assertion that the anchor in the video is a knock off is 100% false!!! The anchor in that video is a genuine CQR..

These are SOME of my anchors. The genuine CQR 35 is third from the right.....



I believe that in this video I actually zoom in on the shank..

CQR vs Rocna - Hard Sand Setting Comparison - YouTube

BTW It was Craig Smith who tore me a new one for dragging the Rocna "faster". During the Rocna debacle I physically removed this video from the net because their antics disgusted me, and still do.. I had tried dragging the CQR faster but it was even worse than going slower...

The Spade, Manson Supreme, Mantus & Rocna all set here with consistent results. The CQR, Oceanne/Sword & Supermax do not. The genuine Bruce gets a superficial set but hops & pops and will not bury. I no longer own my Delta so it was not tested in this particular substrate..

[congo]

Quote:
Originally Posted by congo
Come on Noelex , you know whose doing that Vid, further that is not a CQR but a Manson plough two very different breeds, further what is the conditon of the pivot.

Regards Rex.
Marine sale wrote:

Sorry Rex you are WRONG..

I made that video with my own anchors. It is a GENUINE CQR. I am NOT an anchor manufacturer, I am a boat owner, and I buy and pay for all my anchors out of my own pocket.

I also conduct my own personal anchor testing in my own waters 99% of which is not published. I own my own 5000 pound digital load cell and have access to a very powerful power boat from which to conduct my testing...

Sometimes I find the testing so interesting that I make a video....
__________________
Maine Sail's "How To" Articles

Hi Marine sale, thanks for coming back, yes well I am still puzzled as to why the video was edited in relation to the context of Noelexs Quote, did you Marine sale edit it for Noelex, further if you say it is a CQR then I will have to live with it but it still looks identical to Manson Plough, if it was a CQR was the pivot flogged out, did you research the throat opening, check it with original specks before dragging, not saying these anchors wont lay on their side they can but if in good shape will show some effort to right themselves.
The dragging effect that you illustrate in that video is common with copies and worn out pivots.
Regards Rex.

[motion30]

The video did not work for me

[Delancey]

Originally Posted by congo

Clancey Wrote:

Ok Rex, I haven't a clue. Please enlighten me. Explain to me why you think modern tractors use a three point hitch. In simple terms, so even I can understand.

Explain to me why the front wheels of the tractor aren't high in the sky when it pulls a plough? Explain to me why the top rod of a three point hitch should be a chain and why anyone who ever built a three point hitch is wrong for using a rod instead of chain?

Rex Wrote:

Gee Delancey I feel really humbled for such a request, problem I see, if many far more intelligent people than me have bombarded you with information, if their efforts cannot convince you, I don’t think I can enlighten you with simple terms, when it comes to anchors it all looks very simple.

Keep on with your project, it will eventually balance out your enthusiasm and leave you in a more explorative state of mind.

Regards Rex.

Cheoah wrote: The three point hitch is two draft links and one top link. The top link is an important part of the adjustment so that you have the proper angles. The top link does provide a rigid linkage so that the plow doesn't simply swing back with the resistance of the soil.

Delancey Wrote: I guess Cheoah doesn't get it either, at least that makes two of us.

Rex, you will be excited to know that Mantus Anchors has graciously provided analysis of the working draft of the handle on the Open Source Anchor which suggests it should be good out to 40,000 lbs which is an 8x times safety factor for a 5,000 lbs load.

It's a good handle that includes a bottle opener and does not require a welded connection to the fluke and I think we are off to a great start. We have got a little fine tuning to do before we make a prototype for testing, but once that's done we will post the files to an open design site for people to start making and testing their own fluke designs.

This means you too can develop your own fluke and upload the files to the open design site. I know you are a charitable guy who isn't in it for the money, what better opportunity to show what you learned dragging wedges through the dirt? You could design a convex fluke and we could test it side by side with a concave fluke that uses the same handle, wouldn't that be great?

That said, in addition to being charitable, I know you are a busy guy. I am looking forward to seeing your handleless anchor design. I hear the crabs off the waters of Fukashima are getting bigger by the minute which should please the BIB crowd.

[congo]

Marine sale wrote:
More 100% false assumptions. Your net behavior is now beginning to look very Craig Smith-ish. You may want to do yourself a favor and stop that before you do damage to your companies reputation. BTW I would love to try one of your anchors but we can't seem to get them here....

I do NOT own any hinged plow anchors other than TWO GENUINE CQR's. Your assertion that the anchor in the video is a knock off is 100% false!!! The anchor in that video is a genuine CQR..

These are SOME of my anchors. The genuine CQR 35 is third from the right.....

Rex Wrote:
Fair suck of the sav, assumptions were not derived from you, but Noelex, yes I can clearly now see that it is a CQR and might I say pleased, all of my assumptions would have not derived if Knoelex had of shown the whole Vid, but I still wonder over the wear factor of your CQR. Noelex continuously puts me through the ringer its only fair to question him.

I have given much on this forum and answered many questions only to be questioned again; I find it a bit sad that you should judge me, my comments to Noelex you have taken them personally, Noelex could have supplied the info you have and it would have been soughted.
Once again sorry if I offended you it certainly wasn’t intentional.

Regards Rex.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by congo

I think your editing in relation to you putting up that Vid is questionable[/

Rex I don't know where you get this stuff.

It's not my video I did not edit it or touch it, nor did not ask Maine Sail to edit or touch it. I remembered Maine Sail posting a video on a CQR dragging many years ago and simply Googled it. You are seeing conspiracies where there are none

I think you owe Maine Sail an apology. He is meticulous about everything he does. His documentation of attention to detail are remarkable. I don't know why you want to tarnish his reputation. The video did not even show one of your anchors