Anchors - Bigger is Better ?

[Delancey]

Then you got Rex, who comes on here and says there's all kinds of ploughs that don't use levers, in the next breath he says he used a plough with a handle you had to push on to make the plough dig? I am sorry but calling it a handle makes it not a lever? Whatever floats yer boat I guess, sounds like a lever to me.

[sabray]

Skimmed this thread. I think Delancy has a toy dog he is dragging around Central Park. Delfin has added a wheel to his anchor gear. Jonjo has decided to critique spud extractors. Congo has opted out of anchor threads and has shifted his efforts to making jerry jugs that have real caps and don't spill fuel all over like the current EPA idiots approve.
I am off for a sail. Going to test my new bib mushroom anchors.

[congo]

Delancy Wrote:

Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!!! Ya here that farmer dudes? Three point linkage ensures a rigid connection, without it the plough would simply swing out due to the resistance of the soil. The rigid connection means the plough and the tractor are one big long lever that uses the dead weight of the tractor to stay down!

Rex Wrote:

Yes well our horse had no 3 point linkage, so we used to jam the plough shank into the horse from where the sun don’t shine to stop it from swinging out, and yes they are handles as we used these to pull it back out.

Regards Rex.

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by sabray

Skimmed this thread. I think Delancy has a toy dog he is dragging around Central Park. Delfin has added a wheel to his anchor gear. Jonjo has decided to critique spud extractors. Congo has opted out of anchor threads and has shifted his efforts to making jerry jugs that have real caps and don't spill fuel all over like the current EPA idiots approve.
I am off for a sail. Going to test my new bib mushroom anchors.

The diversion into educating the uneducable on plows actually loops back to optimum anchor design. Without some means of keeping plows from doing what they are designed to do - dive and keep diving (like draft control or depth wheels) - you can bring a 4 wheel drive 400 hp tractor to a grinding halt. What this should mean to people is that notwithstanding colored fonts and "problem bends" an anchor can be made to also dive and generate massive holding force. And guess what - people have.

[Cotemar]

Yes, but a Concave shovel works so much better as an anchor than a Convex splitter.

I would rather dig a hole with my Concave anchor than drag the Convex splitter anchor around the harbor until it hits a rock.

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by Cotemar

Yes, but a Concave shovel works so much better as an anchor than a Convex splitter.

I would rather dig a hole with my Concave anchor than drag the Convex splitter anchor around the harbor until it hits a rock.

Only in your mind is a rock required to stop an anchor dug in deeply.

[darylat8750]

Originally Posted by Delancey

Dude, they use the weight of the tractor to hold it down. Doesn't use a ball hitch. Come on.

No. The geometry of the moulboards pulls them down. This can be adjusted by the length of the third link on three point systems. The hydraulics use some of the downward force to add "weight" to the tractors drive wheels for added traction.

I have also used a walk behind plow. Grandad's did not have a gauge wheel. Depth was controlled manually by leverage on the "heal" of the moulboard. This could be eased by adjusting the angle of pull on the traces from the mule. (We weren't the wealthy folks with the draft horses. )

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by darylat8750

No. The geometry of the moulboards pulls them down. This can be adjusted by the length of the third link on three point systems. The hydraulics use some of the downward force to add "weight" to the tractors drive wheels for added traction.

I have also used a walk behind plow. Grandad's did not have a gauge wheel. Depth was controlled manually by leverage on the "heal" of the moulboard. This could be eased by adjusting the angle of pull on the traces from the mule. (We weren't the wealthy folks with the draft horses. )

That must have been pretty tiring and required some skill to keep the furrow level. The only plows I ever used were still small enough you could use the 3 point draft control to keep it from burying and stalling the tractor, but I always fancied pulling a semi mounted 12 bottom through the rolling hills of the Palouse. Very meditative.

[sabray]

Originally Posted by Delfin

The diversion into educating the uneducable on plows actually loops back to optimum anchor design. Without some means of keeping plows from doing what they are designed to do - dive and keep diving (like draft control or depth wheels) - you can bring a 4 wheel drive 400 hp tractor to a grinding halt. What this should mean to people is that notwithstanding colored fonts and "problem bends" an anchor can be made to also dive and generate massive holding force. And guess what - people have.

That explains why my old cqr would burry into sand and thick mud soil poo stuff so deep you couldn't see it. .
Here I am testing a dog anchor. Later the dog has had enough and drags me through Central Park.
Then I have the design basis for the anchors I am testing

[B-Baysailer]

Cotemar there shore must be a lot of rocks everywhere I anchor because my excel sets very fast and deep it is much harder to raise than any other anchor I have

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by sabray

That explains why my old cqr would burry into sand and thick mud soil poo stuff so deep you couldn't see it. .
Here I am testing a dog anchor. Later the dog has had enough and drags me through Central Park.
Then I have the design basis for the anchors I am testing

I like your thinking. The only problem bends you would have to worry about is if you brought the dog up too quickly and he got the bends.

[Shas Cho]

[/QUOTE]Delfin said
I've spent many happy hours on a tractor and I can assure you that is not correct.[/QUOTE]

I don't know quite how to answer you, shipmate.
Nothing you've said supports your assertion.
I specifically stated that the depth wheel has been in use
since the Technological Revolution,
and you are responding with
"a typical 19th century single bottom mold board and a similar dated furrower. "
That would be POST Technological Revolution.

3-point hitches eliminate the need for the depth wheel
because the angle of attack is determined by the hitch adjustment
(regardless of the number of bottoms).
Most single-point hitches require a depth wheel
(regardless of the number of bottoms)
because there is no farmer back there
making continual adjustments.

Watch any third-world farmer
walking behind his buffalo-drawn plough-
he controls the angle of attack
and hence, the depth of penetration,
by raising or lowering the handle(s).

Also, horse do not draw plows with their tails
but with a harness which typically places the single tree
(and therefor the effective height of the pull)
about 12 inches above the ground.

I don't doubt that you used ploughs
equipped with a depth wheel.
I merely assert
that plows were in use for many generations
before the depth wheel evolved.

Even with a depth wheel,
if the angle of attack is too shallow
the plough will emerge from the earth,
while if the angle of attack is too acute
the operator will encounter a number of problems,
from the wheel being buried (in soft ground)
to the plow failing to deliver a proper furrow
or even stopping the tractor
when the tip-down orientation
causes the ploughshare and mouldboard
to present a wide, nearly vertical surface
to the earth in front of it.

Finally, Pard, your nit is somewhat incorrect.
While today's implement dealers
may sort and designate tools
in any arcane jargon they choose,
plows have been used for millennia
to prepare the soil to receive seed.

The plough (BrE) or plow (AmE; see spelling differences; /ˈplaʊ/) is a tool (or machine) used in farming for initial cultivation of soil in preparation for sowing seed or planting to loosen or turn the soil."

The plowshare was in use
long before the mouldboard was invented,
yet you are attempting to impose
the definition of a Mouldboard Plough
on all plows.
The fact is, your Furrower is a type of plow!

[Shas Cho]

Originally Posted by downunder

Shas Cho. You do understand how ploughs work.

Not by choice, downunder.
If we didn't raise it, we didn't eat it!
Well, okay, we did buy salt and pepper and brown sugar.
But not much else.
I spent a good part of my youth on and behind horses.
The rest was spent on tractors!

Maybe that explains why I can cruise in luxury
on a boat that many folks here
seem to think unimaginably primitive...

[Shas Cho]

Originally Posted by congo

there was no way the local councils would let us near those areas with the entourage of people and equipment we had presented

Golly, Rex-
Do Australians have to get permission from councils
to muck about on the beach below the high tide mark?
That's gotta suck.
I can't imagine that happening here.
Of course, machines wouldn't be allowed
in a supervised swimming area or in the middle of a marina,
but that's not a matter for any terrestrial councils.

Not that they don't keep trying...

[Shas Cho]

Originally Posted by Delfin

To be honest, I have no idea why the CQR doesn't work better. I shouldn't have called it a crappy anchor because so many people have used them for years very successfully, although compared to the alternatives now available it probably shouldn't be anyone's first choice anymore.

Well said.

The reason it doesn't dive better
is due to that extremely long LEVER
upon which the boat/rode is pulling upwards.
A lever which determines the angle of attack,
which in turn determines the depth of penetration.
Yet increasing the inherent angle of attack
(by casting a more upward-angled lever)
reduces penetration due to "tripping" on the toe of the anchor.
Plus, the rode is actively pulling the anchor towards the surface,
reducing it's effective weight on bottom.

It's no mystery to me why the CQR fails to dive.
What baffles me is how ANY plough anchor
is induced to dive successfully!