Anchors - Bigger is Better ?

[Cotemar]

Originally Posted by sabray

Let's add a Manson supreme. Well it bights hard and fast and Seems better .
No one even mentions this anchor . It's all Rocna, mantus ultra.... .I need to buy a more popular anchor.

No worries, a Manson Supreme is a sweet anchor. They are just as good as any Rocna, Mantus or ultra.

[congo]

Re: Anchors, Bigger is Better?
Delancy Wrote:
Nice change the subject move. All your ploughs need a lever, without it they are useless. Thinking men use rubber bands not knives.


Rex Wrote:

Not true, not all ploughs need a lever, the one in the Vid behind the tractor is a very modern plough as to the one I used behind a draft horse, no lever, not to say they weren’t around then as I think we were the only ones not using a tractor, back in those days there were thirteen of us kids and I suppose the draft horse was all the old man could afford.

Our plough had an adjustable wheel, it also came with instructions on how to use it, this was called the depth wheel, apply pressure to the rear of the handles to drive down and engage the top part of the large sheer, this pressure against the top part of the sheer then drove it down, the depth wheel controlled this depth level.

To deep and the old Draft horse would stop in his tracks, Delfins right, although called a plough this sheer was only designed to turn the soil over one way, a plough anchor turns it both ways applying double the pressure of a single sheer.

Strict instructions were given when in use not to lean over the handles as if the sheer toe hit a tree root the pressure is reversed and the handles will come up at such a rate it will shorten you arms and possibly rearrange your face.

Regards Rex.

[Delancey]

Rex- you're killing me. Those handles you push on to make your plough dig are levers, you're not supposed to stand over them because they use mechanical advantage and if you hit something, that mechanical advantage isn't working in your favor which means you can get hurt.

I am surprised to hear you have ploughing experience but don't understand that the wedge shape is used for ploughing because it offers the least resistance while still completing the objective of turning the soil.

You going to dig a ditch by holding a shovel backwards so it presents a convex face? Not more likely than trying to plough a field with a shovel?

With enough force you can drag a concave shape through the ground, it's called a dirt scoop. You can drag the blunt end of stick through the dirt with the right angle and enough force. In the third world they call it a stick plough.

The first thing I learned on the first day of anchor school is that is it the angle of attack of the fluke plane that determines the ability of an anchor to set. The fluke plane doesn't care if it is flat, concave, or convex.

To achieve this angle of attack you need to translate the motive force of the pull on the rode and to do this you need a lever.

This is called a shank and it doesn't matter if you have a ballasted tip or a roll bar, an anchor without a shank is called a dead weight sliding across the bottom. Vryhof has shankless anchor that uses a bridle, it also needs two boats to set it. Is that a good idea for a cruising boat? have a spare boat to set your anchor?

I am excited to see the new shankless anchor from Anchor Right though. Will it have a bait cage attached to the handles which make it dive? Or do I just tie on chicken necks so the crabs will pull down on the handles and provide the necessary motive force?

digging with the ford - YouTube

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by congo

Re: Anchors, Bigger is Better?
Delancy Wrote:

Nice change the subject move. All your ploughs need a lever, without it they are useless. Thinking men use rubber bands not knives.


Rex Wrote:

Not true, not all ploughs need a lever.....

Regards Rex.

True enough Rex. Larger plows simply tow behind the tractor from the hitch. The primry motive force driving the plows into the soil is their design that causes them to simply dive into the soil. This would continue until the tractor stops without depth control in the form of hydraulically activated wheels that can be lowered or raised to determine furrow depth and for moving the thing around without plowing up the pavement.

But perhaps the plows in Manhattan work differently, since Delancy seems so very sure.....

The relevance of all this for anchor design is something your testing has already demonstrated. You can build an anchor that dives into the sea bed, generating tremendous holding capacity, causing less environmental damage and outperforming convex hoop style anchors. The CQR isn't that design, nor is the Delta, but clearly they can be built because you did.

[Delancey]

Originally Posted by Delfin

True enough Rex. Larger plows simply tow behind the tractor from the hitch. The only motive force driving the plows into the soil is their design that causes them to simply dive into the soil. This would continue until the tractor stops without depth control in the form of hydraulically activated wheels that can be lowered or raised to determine furrow depth and for moving the thing around without plowing up the pavement.

But perhaps the plows in Manhattan work differently, since Delancy seems so very sure.....

The relevance of all this for anchor design is something your testing has already demonstrated. You can build an anchor that dives into the sea bed, generating tremendous holding capacity, causing less environmental damage and outperforming convex hoop style anchors. The CQR isn't that design, nor is the Delta, but clearly they can be built because you did.

Dude, they use the weight of the tractor to hold it down. Doesn't use a ball hitch. Come on.

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by Delancey

Dude, they use the weight of the tractor to hold it down. Doesn't use a ball hitch. Come on.

Remarkable.

Let me google that for you

Or, if the terminology is too confusing, here's a picture.

[bfloyd4445]

that's it, you guys are making this too complicated. From reading this thread it sounds like one needs a phd to anchor. I carry two danforth's and a delta fast set and a bruce but the bruce I never use cause it dosent work well. From this discussion it sounds like I am doing everything wrong so maybe I should stay tied up to the dock before I hurt myself<smile>

[Cotemar]

Originally Posted by bfloyd4445

that's it, you guys are making this too complicated. From reading this thread it sounds like one needs a phd to anchor. I carry two danforth's and a delta fast set and a bruce but the bruce I never use cause it dosent work well. From this discussion it sounds like I am doing everything wrong so maybe I should stay tied up to the dock before I hurt myself<smile>

No, No. Stick around.

You have a few Danforth anchors. Your all good as everyone here has at least one of those types of anchors on their boat for a storm anchor.

Your in the club. Sit back and pop open a beer. The entertainment here just cannot be found anywhere else on earth.

[bfloyd4445]

Originally Posted by Cotemar

No, No. Stick around.

You have a few Danforth anchors. Your all good as everyone here has at least one of those types of anchors on their boat for a storm anchor.

Your in the club. Sit back and pop open a beer. The entertainment here just cannot be found anywhere else on earth.

I can put my slide rule away then?....sounds good to me

[congo]

Re: Anchors, Bigger is Better?
Delancy Wrote:

Rex- you're killing me. Those handles you push on to make your plough dig are levers, you're not supposed to stand over them because they use mechanical advantage and if you hit something, that mechanical advantage isn't working in your favor which means you can get hurt

Rex Wrote;

You could get hurt, Isn’t that what I said? Second your levers? the ones on our old moldboard plough were called handles, and further our plough also had a shank, at the pulling end of the shank there is a wheel that is manually adjusted to control depth, if you run into harder soil whilst plowing you applied downward pressure on the handles.

And no, the horse did not sit on the shank to apply downward pressure as it was to uncomfortable. Somene help me im feeling old.

As far as the rest of your post I think that is all common knowledge and doesn’t need questioning, never mind you are now involved with an anchor design, as time goes by you will find much of your comment, theory and what you have learnt or think you have learnt will fly out of the window as your anchor models are put into practice, not saying you won’t get there I am sure you will, remember this, If you think making both anchors the same, but one concave and one convex and then trialing them to put the witch design is better to bed.

Such a simple test to determine? As time goes by I think you will question that statement.

Regards Rex.

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by bfloyd4445

that's it, you guys are making this too complicated. From reading this thread it sounds like one needs a phd to anchor. I carry two danforth's and a delta fast set and a bruce but the bruce I never use cause it dosent work well. From this discussion it sounds like I am doing everything wrong so maybe I should stay tied up to the dock before I hurt myself<smile>

Floyd, Cotemar is right. This is the land that Physics forgot, where tractors must sit atop a plow to make it work, problem bends without substance or definition prevent anchors from working, and other marvels. Hard to find more entertainment in one place.

[Delancey]

Originally Posted by Delfin

Remarkable.

Let me google that for you

Or, if the terminology is too confusing, here's a picture.

Yawn, this is starting to not be so much fun anymore.

If you look at a pretty picture you posted you see a hydraulic ram on the back. That moves a lever which translates the dead weight of that whole rig into the motive force required to set the shares. You gonna put a hydraulic ram on your anchor?

By the way, where's your wheely thingy in the front to stop it from digging to China?

[JonJo]

Originally Posted by Cotemar

No, No. Stick around.

You have a few Danforth anchors. Your all good as everyone here has at least one of those types of anchors on their boat for a storm anchor.

Your in the club. Sit back and pop open a beer. The entertainment here just cannot be found anywhere else on earth.

And there was me naively thinking that you, and most others, were supporting the idea that bigger is better and did not need a storm anchor. Now it turns out everyone carries a Danforth. Now that's a turn up for the books (and I bet Tie Down are pleased your admitting it.

Out of the mouths of babes a sucklings.

So the story is, we all carry bigger anchors, because its safer, in fact 2 sizes bigger, We would of course only carry a modern design anchor. We carry the 2 sizes bigger anchors because it holds sooo well.

But when the chips are down we deploy an anchor the design of which was released in 1939.

So maybe the BIB faction are anchors salesmen after all

Beggars belief.



You are right Cotemar - the entertainment is unique.

[Delancey]

Three-point hitch - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[downunder]

Originally Posted by Delancey

Rex- you're killing me. Those handles you push on to make your plough dig are levers, you're not supposed to stand over them because they use mechanical advantage and if you hit something, that mechanical advantage isn't working in your favor which means you can get hurt.

I am surprised to hear you have ploughing experience but don't understand that the wedge shape is used for ploughing because it offers the least resistance while still completing the objective of turning the soil.

You going to dig a ditch by holding a shovel backwards so it presents a convex face? Not more likely than trying to plough a field with a shovel?

With enough force you can drag a concave shape through the ground, it's called a dirt scoop. You can drag the blunt end of stick through the dirt with the right angle and enough force. In the third world they call it a stick plough.

The first thing I learned on the first day of anchor school is that is it the angle of attack of the fluke plane that determines the ability of an anchor to set. The fluke plane doesn't care if it is flat, concave, or convex.

To achieve this angle of attack you need to translate the motive force of the pull on the rode and to do this you need a lever.

This is called a shank and it doesn't matter if you have a ballasted tip or a roll bar, an anchor without a shank is called a dead weight sliding across the bottom. Vryhof has shankless anchor that uses a bridle, it also needs two boats to set it. Is that a good idea for a cruising boat? have a spare boat to set your anchor?

I am excited to see the new shankless anchor from Anchor Right though. Will it have a bait cage attached to the handles which make it dive? Or do I just tie on chicken necks so the crabs will pull down on the handles and provide the necessary motive force?

We have moved from the realm of ploughing to earthmoving here with this video.

Certainly not anchoring although that scoop is capable of stalling that tractor.