Anchors - Bigger is Better ?

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by engele

While avoiding they fight as much as possible, lets just say we have up sized our anchor and have had no drag issues since. Same design, different weight. We have however had several boats drag towards us and one thing they all had in common is that they were undersized and the owner anchored too close with an undersized anchor that gave no allowance for a reset should they need it. In my experience bigger is better. There is a reason bigger anchors have a higher holding rating. As long as your boat can bury the anchor in reverse, then it isn't too big and there is almost no downside to having it.

We love our fortress as well, and while it is light... It is bigger than the recommended size for our boat.

Hmmm... admittedly you do get the 'Irriuts' like the old French guy who dragged all over the place in Olhau, Portugal who cleared the anchorage in a blow as he'd repeatedly dragged (with great accuracy) on every boat in the anchorage as he repeatedly reset.. we were the last boat he dragged on.. after I fended him off and as he headed away to re-anchor yet again I jumped in the dink and went across to help.. he had 2 small cast Danforth's in line... total weight maybe 20lbs on 10metres chain and a rope warp... so I told him to give up... helped him tie to the fishing dock and directed him to a chandlers...
However... examples like the above aside I've found most cases of dragging with adequate anchors is not the anchors fault.. its the operators poor technique... but who's gonna admit to that..
Much easier to blame the anchor and double the size...
'Face Saved'

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by boatman61

However... examples like the above aside I've found most cases of dragging with adequate anchors is not the anchors fault.. its the operators poor technique... but who's gonna admit to that.

I watch people anchor around me reasonably carefully and often dive on their anchor as well.

The ratio of boats dragging due to poor technique verses those dragging due to the anchor failing is roughly 50/50 in my experience. The ratio does vary considerably. In the more out of the way places with no charter boats the ratio swings much more to anchor failing and in heavily chartered areas poor technique and execution account for a higher percentage.

[Kettlewell]

Here on the East Coast of North America it is easy to determine if it is technique or anchor because almost everywhere has excellent holding, so my conclusion is that more than 9 out of 10 is due to anchoring improperly. I see it all the time around me: excellent holding, decent anchor, boat drags=bad technique. I've seen it happen with new-gen anchors and old-gen anchors. And then I see other folks come in with what I would consider a woefully undersized or inadequate hook and sit through a series of thundersqualls without moving an inch while others are struggling. I think where the anchor design comes more into play are places like where Noelex is anchoring or down in the San Blas or in Mexico where you have a very hard packed bottom, with limited room, and hazards all around. Another place would be in heavy weed or kelp, or in those shingle bottoms Evans' plays around with down in the Beagle Channel.

[noelex 77]

Wind conditions also play a big role.
Those with poor technique (inadequate scope, unset anchors etc) generally start dragging at low windspeeds (say an average of 25k). When the windspeed goes up to 40k more anchors deployed correctly will start to drag due to the inadequate anchor design/size for the conditions.

[Kettlewell]

Obviously, windspeed plays a big factor, but a major windshift accompanied by windspeed is often the instigator. A decently set decent anchor can hold a lot, even on short scope, but then throw in a 180-degree windshift as a thundersquall comes through with 40 knots and the anchor tips over or pops out, and then can't reset because there isn't enough scope out and away we go...

[Bash]

Originally Posted by congo

Choose an anchor regardless of design CONCAVE –CONVEX with the strongest design, just as important the strongest in steel type, make sure the anchor is a certified design, one that works the best, the best in the widest scope of sea floor types, good tip weight is essential, a design that doesn’t clog but keeps digging deeper, a design without a roll bar, good performance in change of tide and wind.

Certified design?

Translation: purchase the anchor Congo's company sells, not the anchors sold by his competition.

[Kettlewell]

Certified design?

I'm not sure we in the USA have a certification agency for pleasure boat anchors that I know of. They aren't even required equipment by the Coast Guard! I suppose small commercial vessel anchors must meet some certification, but judging from the ones I see on many of them they are often very undersized. I wonder what type of anchor something like this has?

[JPA Cate]

In the round Tasmania Rallye, there was a participant who managed to become slightly infamous for dragging. His Rocna is the size recommended for his boat. Pondering this makes me wonder if the anchor companies list the minimum size, like it'd work excellently in firm mud holding, but not so well in the varied conditions found down here, so that it may not be "bigger is better" it may be more like, bigger is more appropriate, because what one is told is not an accurate reflection of life where bottoms have various holding qualities. I actually do think the fellow above's anchor is "too small," but in addition, think he didn't use enough rode, possibly due to the overcrowding of being with too many boats in too small anchorages.

[JPA Cate]

Big ooooops, guys, sorry. The anchor in question is a Rocna, not an Excel.

Please accept my apologies, I blew it.

[Kettlewell]

That's interesting because the Rocna suggested sizes table is pretty conservative. If someone is consistently dragging like that I would attribute it more to the user than the equipment, short of very severe conditions. I bet he doesn't power set his anchor and/or doesn't use enough scope. I'm reminded of someone I met down in the San Blas on an ordinary Beneteau with an ordinary sized CQR and yet they were one of the few folks who didn't drag, even in some pretty severe conditions. Every time I dove on his anchor, and we were near each other a lot, that CQR was buried deep in the best sand around, with lots of scope out. He seemed to have a nose for the best anchoring spots too.

[Graceunderway]

Winds 40kt and it held all night! But ride was rough!

[Kettlewell]

At a glance I don't think that's a Hi Tensile Danforth, but probably the regular one. The Hi Tensile ones are a lot stronger. What size anchor and boat and where were you anchored?

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

At a glance I don't think that's a Hi Tensile Danforth, but probably the regular one. The Hi Tensile ones are a lot stronger. What size anchor and boat and where were you anchored?

I agree... I think! I know that our older (1985 about) 20-H Danforth has a forged stock, allegedly of 4130 chrome moly steel, and the shape is different than the bent one in the pic.

However, I seem to recall that Danforth later had a different series of designs which included thinner stocks (called Deepset or some such) and may well have had one called hi-tensile that wasn't forged.

So, in this case a BIB Danforth wouldn't have held any better, but it might have survived with a straight stock!

Cheers,

Jim

[engele]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Hmmm... admittedly you do get the 'Irriuts' like the old French guy who dragged all over the place in Olhau, Portugal who cleared the anchorage in a blow as he'd repeatedly dragged (with great accuracy) on every boat in the anchorage as he repeatedly reset.. we were the last boat he dragged on.. after I fended him off and as he headed away to re-anchor yet again I jumped in the dink and went across to help.. he had 2 small cast Danforth's in line... total weight maybe 20lbs on 10metres chain and a rope warp... so I told him to give up... helped him tie to the fishing dock and directed him to a chandlers...
However... examples like the above aside I've found most cases of dragging with adequate anchors is not the anchors fault.. its the operators poor technique... but who's gonna admit to that..
Much easier to blame the anchor and double the size...
'Face Saved'

I have no idea why someone would knock a bigger anchor. I understand knocking nylon, small anchors, and poor method, but not bigger hooks. We didn't drag with either anchor unless I did something stupid (anchor where I shouldn't have), but the bigger hook sets harder, faster, and allows me to sleep that much better. We have moved when people have anchored too close on nylon and small anchors, and I will often use a look bucket discreetly on both our and any close boats anchors. Your Frenchman seems like a textbook case for why bigger anchors are better than two small ones...

[congo]

Bash Wrote:

Certified design?

Translation: purchase the anchor Congo's company sells, not the anchors sold by his competition.


Geez Bash you are so wrong, have some respect for Brian at Fortress, Manson anchors and there are more certified, the one below isnt.

J Cate Wrote:
Big ooooops, guys, sorry. The anchor in question is a Rocna, not an Excel.

Please accept my apologies, I blew it.
__________________
Ann Cate, as/v Insatiable II, cruising

Regards Rex.