Anchors - Bigger is Better ?

[Ocean Girl]

Realizing that you are here to sell sarca anchors, ( Isn't that for the Vender forum?) I just finally pulled up your anchor on the web. They are beautiful anchors and I am impressed with the design, I understand why you are delighted to speak about them. Though, I did read posts about them dragging or not catching at all, maybe this is an older design? one post mentioned that they did not have enough weight( anchor weight, or chain weight?). One post thought his anchor was under sized. Many said the anchor dug in deep into the seabed, proved by how hard it was to get up. It seemed the same talk as any thread about anchors, one size up was also recommended in the sarca discussion.

I'd be just peachy with your anchor on the bow of Rain Dog( 1-2 sizes up from recommendation) BIB

Perfect or not, you designed a beautiful anchor

[congo]

Ocean girl wrote:

Realizing that you are here to sell sarca anchors, ( Isn't that for the Vender forum?) I just finally pulled up your anchor on the web. They are beautiful anchors and I am impressed with the design, I understand why you are delighted to speak about them. Though, I did read posts about them dragging or not catching at all, maybe this is an older design? one post mentioned that they did not have enough weight( anchor weight, or chain weight?). One post thought his anchor was under sized. Many said the anchor dug in deep into the seabed, proved by how hard it was to get up. It seemed the same talk as any thread about anchors, one size up was also recommended in the sarca discussion.

I'd be just peachy with your anchor on the bow of Rain Dog( 1-2 sizes up from recommendation) BIB

Perfect or not, you designed a beautiful anchor
__________________

Rex Wrote: I acknowledge your post and respect it, I would have to argue when in comparrison anchors dragging over an 18 year period our reputation is not bad when you look at some of the new designs over only a period of 8 years, but you make agood point.

As far as selling anchors, well if any ones intersted why not , big difference we are not in your neck of the woods and do not have a distributor there, yet, generally speaking a lot of my appearences has been to defend some of the negative comments that seem to be ongoing.

All and any of our supportive comments have been locked, I think they have all deserted this forum as they did put a lot of effort in and at times and made it intersting.

Regardless the negative reaction we get is probably part due to my comments, but we are not comming over to take over the world, check us out and you will see why.

I do appreciated your respons it is respectfull and some kind words, something that some on this forum could learn from.

Have a good week end.

Regards Rex.

[noelex 77]

For a while there we had several consecutive posts that did not mention Sarca anchors.

[JonJo]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

For a while there we had several consecutive posts that did not mention Sarca anchors.

I had thought, once the fervour over 'Bigger is Better' had died down to start 3 other threads, one at a time - I would not want anyone to suffer from apoplexy

Namely:

slotted, or tripping shanks, has anyone used one, what are the experiences?

Alloy anchors, what are members comments?

and another (you'll need to wait for that one (but you get the drift)).

The trouble is meritorious though the subjects might be, or not, it is likely the dreaded +++++ word might appear. We might even had had ****** and then there might have been 2 manufacturers to consider blacklisting. Consequently Luddites rule! Sad really.




One sign of a good journalist might be to write impartial articles but have prejudiced personal views

[emmo]

The anchor ypou need is the one that is big enough to let you sleep at night,
I have slept through 60 knots
cheers Emmo

[JonJo]

Originally Posted by emmo

The anchor ypou need is the one that is big enough to let you sleep at night,
I have slept through 60 knots
cheers Emmo

If you want to sleep throgh 60 knots try Scapa it is excellent, but you need to be discerning to find one.

[noelex 77]

This is a post from an earlier thread, but these are wise words, worthy of repeating.

Originally Posted by JonJo

One is always conscious of an individual who takes the trouble to join a specific forum and joins a specific thread to spruik a product that is the subject of some international dissent. It brings to mind the suggestion that a notorious individual who talked up the performance of his product and posted dishonest promotional material, on various forum and his website, was said to have mutliple identities, or individuals acting directly on his behalf, in order to better legitimise his activity. Thankfully that individual appears to have ceased his unsavoury activity and forum appear to engender usually fair and honest posts.

[Kettlewell]

It seems there's a great deal of opinion here, but few folks sharing experiences relevant to the question at hand. I'll describe mine even though no "new gen" anchors are involved, and because it's unusual to most CF members (although not so strange on the coast of Maine.)

Thanks for sharing. If you wade back through the thread and some others you'll see there are actually quite a few interesting personal experiences recounted--I have a tough time not telling an anecdote or two when I post.

In fact, I think what it all boils down to is that anchors and anchoring are not an exact science. Yes, there are certain general parameters that if followed yield a high rate of success for most people, but we also see a high rate of folks bucking the current and still finding success. There are so many variables involved.

One I have observed while anchored in bad weather seems almost impossible to quantify, and that has a bearing on this BIB question. Some boats are just hard on their anchors: the anchor rode is bar taught, the boat is straining for all it's worth to pull that anchor out of the bottom, mud ball and all. While anchored right next to it in the same harbor in the same wind is a similar sized boat that you can see a definite bend in the rode in the lulls, and the boat is just being gentle on the anchor. I have also felt this on various boats I have owned. My current 38-foot high windage, motorsailor ketch with a pilothouse has a relatively modest pull on the hook compared to my last boat, a fairly sleek 32-foot catamaran. My 37-foot Aage Nielsen didn't even have a windlass, yet she practically sailed up on the anchor--very light on the pull, and she displaced around 22000 lb. How do I know? I pull in the anchor hand over hand if physically possible, only using the windlass during the breakout stage--it's part of my exercise routine.

In any case, I wonder if part of BIB is due to boats having a lot more windage than they did in the past? Think of roller furling sails, hard tops, dinghies on davits, solar panels, wind generators, freeboard, etc.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

In any case, I wonder if part of BIB is due to boats having a lot more windage than they did in the past? Think of roller furling sails, hard tops, dinghies on davits, solar panels, wind generators, freeboard, etc.

I think that is an accurate observation. Cruising boats in particular seem to everything, including the kitchen sink, strapped on deck. They are also often a good deal over their original displacement.
However I think this biggest factor is the weather. They are much more likely to anchored in weather that a typical boat would never consider leaving he marina. Many sail year around instead of retiring for the worse part of the season.
The final factor is exposure. Anchoring everyday means even a small failure rate is a problem.
Because so few yachts actually are full time cruising their needs are not reflected in the manufacturers tables.

[Kettlewell]

However I think this biggest factor is the weather. They are much more likely to anchored in weather that a typical boat would never consider leaving he marina.

No, something has changed with long-distance cruisers. I have most of the classic books going back to when people first started doing this. I'm looking right now at Maurice Griffith's book Blue Water, copyright 1979--about when I got my first boat. His Awahnee was 53-feet overall, displacing 25 tons, and he sailed to places like the Straights of Magellan and all over the Pacific, etc. His anchors were as follows:
25 lb CQR
2 45 lb welded Northills
1 40 lb Herreshoff pattern fisherman
1 40 lb standard fisherman
1 25 lb cast Northill


Plus some grapnels and dinghy anchors.

[noelex 77]

There is some truth in what you say. Cruising bost anchors have got heavier, but I don't think it the same degree as your example shows.
I have an ancient copy of "Cruising under sail" by Hiscock that my dad gave to me. For a 40 foot LWL boat Hiscock recommends a 60lb (27kg) CQR with 7/16 inch chain.

I think there are several factors why they used lighter anchors.
Before the days of reliable electric winches handling larger anchors was not practical for a small crew.
The philosophy was to use heavier chain with small anchors.
Dragging was expected, setting an anchor watch was common.
You could drag (with an offshore wind) and not hit another boat.

[Bash]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

I think there are several factors why they used lighter anchors.
Before the days of reliable electric winches handling larger anchors was not practical for a small crew.
The philosophy was to use heavier chain with small anchors.
Dragging was expected, setting an anchor watch was common.
You could drag (with an offshore wind) and not hit another boat.

Your list might also include the observation that anchorages were less crowded in the days of yore.

I'm wondering whether the advent of high-test chain has something to do with the fact that modern cruisers are substituting weight in the chain with heavier anchors.

[boatman61]

Todays cruising boats have more windage than the old boat...?
Yeah right...

[Panope]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

No, something has changed with long-distance cruisers. I have most of the classic books going back to when people first started doing this. I'm looking right now at Maurice Griffith's book Blue Water, copyright 1979--about when I got my first boat. His Awahnee was 53-feet overall, displacing 25 tons, and he sailed to places like the Straights of Magellan and all over the Pacific, etc. His anchors were as follows:
25 lb CQR
2 45 lb welded Northills
1 40 lb Herreshoff pattern fisherman
1 40 lb standard fisherman
1 25 lb cast Northill


Plus some grapnels and dinghy anchors.

Hello Kettlewell, I have not read this book. Did this sailor use multiple anchors simultaneously during storms?

I added up the total weight of his anchors. = 220 lbs.

Using BIB philosophy:
From the Manson Supreme sizing chart, 2 times oversize = 125 lb.
From the Fortress Sizing chart 2 times oversize = 69 lb.
Add a small Fortress for the odd situation = 21 lbs.
Total = 215 lbs.

Another variable that did not exist back in yesteryear: Today, if you loose your primary anchor, A replacement can be obtained just about anywhere in the world. So it has becomes less important to carry multiple spares.

Steve

[boatsail]

I got the manson boss. 25 pound was rec by manson for my boat. I got the 35 pound. Love it. I don't think I made a mistake about getting the bigger size. There is no question in my mind that the 35# will hold me better than the 25#. also, I could be wrong as I don't have scientific testing to back me up, just common sense. My thought is that the concave will hold me better than the convex, so I went with concave. Did not want the roll bar on there as it is weight that is not benefitting the fluke. weight in the fluke means more surface area. more surface area means more holding.