Anchors - Bigger is Better ?

[Cotemar]

JonJo

Here is Kettlewells Mantus anchor. He also likes to test anchors as we all do

A Fortress anchor would be a light weight flat blade anchor with a machined edge which makes it perform better than a Danforth anchor of the same design

[Kettlewell]

Yep, I've got a nice 45-lb Mantus now, but haven't tried it enough yet to come to any conclusions except it holds when there is next to no wind! Replaced a 45-lb Bulwagga, which replaced a 45-lb CQR. I like to compare anchors of equal weight and the 45-pounders have always held me well in the past. 38-foot motorsailor ketch, decent amount of windage, about 20,000 lbs. displacement.

[Cotemar]

My boat still has the winter cover on, but I plan on being in the water on April 1st as I do every year.

I purchased the Mantus anchor for testing this season. They give you a discount if you agree to test it and write up the good or the bad, so I figured I would give it a try.

It may turn out to be just like the Rocna, but will not know until I get it wet in a few weeks.

I enjoy playing with anchors as most of you do on this thread, so stay tuned

[Kettlewell]

By the way, one nice advantage of the hoop is it makes it much easier to grab and lift to get the anchor off and on the bow roller, which I need to do each time I use my mooring. Doing that with the Bulwagga is like handling a loaded bear trap.

[JonJo]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

Yep, I've got a nice 45-lb Mantus now, but haven't tried it enough yet to come to any conclusions except it holds when there is next to no wind! Replaced a 45-lb Bulwagga, which replaced a 45-lb CQR. I like to compare anchors of equal weight and the 45-pounders have always held me well in the past. 38-foot motorsailor ketch, decent amount of windage, about 20,000 lbs. displacement.

You are certainly not one who has been persuaded by the 'Bigger is Better' concept, your anchors are as minimalist as mine!

I was almost starting to feel like pioneer or religious zealot!

[Kettlewell]

In this debate about which anchors disturb the bottom the least it does appear to me that the Mantus is not as much of a scoop design as the Rocna and the Manson. I anchor in some places with deep, thick mud, so I will give a report eventually on what I dredge up in those harbors.

OT, but it is so wonderful to anchor in some beautiful places in the Bahamas with nothing but deep, clean, pure sand on the bottom. It gives you ultimate holding, and the anchor and chain come up perfectly clean.

[boatman61]

Guess it depends on your nationality...
And when it comes to sales... he who shouts loudest sells more...
but one thing I've learnt is.. if you ask the right questions... you'll get the answers you want..

I'll stick to Bruce.. TYVM..

[JonJo]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Guess it depends on your nationality...
And when it comes to sales... he who shouts loudest sells more...
but one thing I've learnt is.. if you ask the right questions... you'll get the answers you want..

I'll stick to Bruce.. TYVM..

I'm not sure about America but I'd hazard a guess that the Delta is the best selling branded anchor today, and I've never heard a peep out of them, but maybe they only shout at their bank manager.

And I think I asked the 'right' question and was shouted almost out - so I'm not sure asking the question gets the answer you expect.

[JonJo]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

In this debate about which anchors disturb the bottom the least it does appear to me that the Mantus is not as much of a scoop design as the Rocna and the Manson. I anchor in some places with deep, thick mud, so I will give a report eventually on what I dredge up in those harbors.

OT, but it is so wonderful to anchor in some beautiful places in the Bahamas with nothing but deep, clean, pure sand on the bottom. It gives you ultimate holding, and the anchor and chain come up perfectly clean.

Hi,

Its not which one disturbs the bottom most, its which one is perceived, by a casual (or interested) observer, to disturb the bottom. Or, which anchor would be easiest to photograph to underpin a statement. Disturbing the seabed, in this case, is not about science but about perception.

I also note that the roll bar of the Mantus protrudes well outside the fluke area. This might mean in comparison to a Rocna or Supreme there is less compression, there is less of a narrowing, and restriction of the seabed (especially if it has any weed) in the scoop so it might not choke so easily. If you can check how the toe performs, from the demo vids its obviously sharp - how long does it keep its point?

I'm with you on those lovely sand bottoms, whereever

[Kettlewell]

You hear a lot about Deltas here in the USA, and they are everywhere. Their distributor is very big and active here too. They do a lot on the OEM front, so you see Deltas on the bows of many new boats.

Which reminds me of something I forgot to mention with regard to BIB. Back in the day, many, if not most, larger powerboats in this country came with a bow roller purposely designed for a certain size of Danforth anchor, so that they fit perfectly when hauled home. I once took a 44-foot, fairly heavy displacement, semi-displacement Tollycraft all over the Bahamas for a month-long photo shoot. Probably anchored 200 times in that month, so I got to know and trust this tiny-looking Danforth of maybe 35 lbs. The only other anchor this vessel had was a smaller Danforth used in Bahamiam moors and such. This was the winter, so we had some strong winds, cold fronts, etc. And once you set that smallish Danforth with a decent amount of power it was just buried and would hold till the cows came home. I don't recall any serious blows to test it, but I have no doubt that anchor would have held in much bigger stuff, despite the large amount of windage we had. You could feel it when we backed down with those big engines--bang, once the anchor was in we came to a stop.

[JonJo]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

You hear a lot about Deltas here in the USA, and they are everywhere. Their distributor is very big and active here too. They do a lot on the OEM front, so you see Deltas on the bows of many new boats.

Which reminds me of something I forgot to mention with regard to BIB. Back in the day, many, if not most, larger powerboats in this country came with a bow roller purposely designed for a certain size of Danforth anchor, so that they fit perfectly when hauled home. I once took a 44-foot, fairly heavy displacement, semi-displacement Tollycraft all over the Bahamas for a month-long photo shoot. Probably anchored 200 times in that month, so I got to know and trust this tiny-looking Danforth of maybe 35 lbs. The only other anchor this vessel had was a smaller Danforth used in Bahamiam moors and such. This was the winter, so we had some strong winds, cold fronts, etc. And once you set that smallish Danforth with a decent amount of power it was just buried and would hold till the cows came home. I don't recall any serious blows to test it, but I have no doubt that anchor would have held in much bigger stuff, despite the large amount of windage we had. You could feel it when we backed down with those big engines--bang, once the anchor was in we came to a stop.

Sounds to me to endorse any professionally branded 'danforth style', any problems in wind shifts? Any problems with retreival.

[Kettlewell]

No, this was a genuine Danforth hi-tensile I'm pretty sure. A lot of the knock off Danforths have not been good--they often get some critical dimension wrong, and they aren't very strong. I have no experience with the current generation of Danforths, which are made by a different company, but based on the same designs. The Danforth brand has changed hands a few times and gone up and down in quality. If I was expecting a big wind shift or anchored in a tidal stream I would have used a Bahamian moor if it was for overnight or leaving the boat unattended, but most of the places we were didn't test the resetting ability. R. Danforth Ogg was a big proponent of using two anchors at all times. He routinely used two 12-lb. Hi-Tensile Danforths to anchor his 64-foot PT-type power boat, and claimed he could do so with other boats rafted alongside and winds of 25-30 knots! Sounds like a bit of salesman's hype, but he knew his stuff. I have some of his publications, and they are quite interesting. They feature actual tables and graphs of measured loads and other interesting information.

[boatman61]

The thing I don't like about Danforths is the tendancy to have a stone jam in the fluke so when it flips your screwed

[JonJo]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

No, this was a genuine Danforth hi-tensile I'm pretty sure. A lot of the knock off Danforths have not been good--they often get some critical dimension wrong, and they aren't very strong. I have no experience with the current generation of Danforths, which are made by a different company, but based on the same designs. The Danforth brand has changed hands a few times and gone up and down in quality. If I was expecting a big wind shift or anchored in a tidal stream I would have used a Bahamian moor if it was for overnight or leaving the boat unattended, but most of the places we were didn't test the resetting ability. R. Danforth Ogg was a big proponent of using two anchors at all times. He routinely used two 12-lb. Hi-Tensile Danforths to anchor his 64-foot PT-type power boat, and claimed he could do so with other boats rafted alongside and winds of 25-30 knots! Sounds like a bit of salesman's hype, but he knew his stuff. I have some of his publications, and they are quite interesting. They feature actual tables and graphs of measured loads and other interesting information.

Boatman61 might have been commenting on advertiser's hype - I was not sure of his inference. But it sounds as if Mr Ogg might have supported, quality comes in small packages? But maybe someone will say it only works for good danforth styles, like Fortress? Sorry to labour the point (I know its not in my character), how did he use 2 small anchors, tandem, ahead at 30 degrees to each, or what? Taking you expereinces and that of Mr Ogg, it does suggest that if you can get a small anchor to dive (which might not cover enough seabed types for all people) then they can develop holding capacity well beyond superficial expectations.


I find it odd you can buy genuine Danforths off the shelf in Japan but you never see them here.

[Kettlewell]

Ogg advocated the classic Bahamian moor technique using two lightweight Danforths, one set forward and one aft, with both leading to the bow roller. He points out that in a crowded anchorage it lets you put out plenty of scope while still reducing your swinging room to an acceptable amount. I know nobody here likes to do this, but I use the technique all the time in places like Cuttyhunk where the harbor tends to be very crowded. One little trick I do is to anchor behind everyone when the wind is in the typical direction so that my stern is right next to the shallows and then I put the stern anchor out on the shallows. In the inevitable midnight windshift everyone swings away downwind in a tangle and I stay up in the north end of the harbor with plenty of room. I am so used to doing this that I can set a second anchor in a couple of minutes. In the same harbor my FX-23 Fortresses held totally during Hurricane Bob, so I know they provide plenty of holding for this use.