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Old 01-07-2013, 18:51   #46
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Re: Anchors and chain

It seems that snubber length would be limited by, how deep is your anchorsge? 30' would be way to long for me if anchored in 10-20'. I would not any knot or fancy hook on the bottom.
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Old 01-07-2013, 18:59   #47
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Re: Anchors and chain

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It seems that snubber length would be limited by, how deep is your anchorsge? 30' would be way to long for me if anchored in 10-20'. I would not any knot or fancy hook on the bottom.
I just cleat it off so the length of the rode is less than the depth.
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Old 01-07-2013, 19:08   #48
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Re: Anchors and chain

If its blowing 40 knots not much is going to touch the bottom! If its blowing 10 knots you do not need a snubber.

We run ours along the sidedecks from the stern cleats, you could run from winches or mid ship cleats. The cordage passes through the stanchion bases and turning blocks on the bow. You can alter the run of the snubber, along the decks, with a snatch block on a soft shackle. We leave ours permanently in place (if a 'normal' yacht, configure a way to run just inside the toerail (they are not then in the way).

But if you use the length, or part of it, of the yacht then you are not restricted (but you might/WILL need chafe guards). It all depends on 'your' yacht configuration.

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Old 01-07-2013, 19:11   #49
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Re: Anchors and chain

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Foggy,

We can confirm what you have done, though I'm not sure what you mean by 30% of breaking?

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Jonathan-- that 30% was a WAG .. or wild @$$ guess
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Old 01-07-2013, 19:51   #50
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Re: Anchors and chain

Want to know how much of your chain is on the bottom during a blow? Do the math. Go out and look at your bridle or snubber. Note from the hook, knot or whatever is connecting your bridle to the anchor chain, the amount in feet of anchor chain leading to your anchor that is out of the water. Note at the same time the height of the hook or knot above the water. As an example, anchored in 10 ft of water. Hook out of water 2 ft, amount of chain out from hook towards anchor 6 ft. So for every 6 ft of chain length it decends 2 ft. Water 10 ft + 2 ft (from the hook) total 12 ft. Min length of chain needed to reach bottom, 12 div 2 = 6 x 6= 36 ft. So if you have 5-1 (with hook touching water while slack, no wind) or have deployed 50 ft of chain then you have 14 ft still laying on the bottom. After doing the math I would probably let out another 50 but that is just me. This only works with an all chain rode. It is not perfect but it is a good guesstamation.
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Old 01-07-2013, 20:27   #51
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Re: Anchors and chain

I have never been at anchor in a storm that the wind did not gust or slack off for a moment. To think that a 30' snubber would not be touching the bottom at times is just not realistic. I do not want to spend my watch on the fordeck adjusting the snubber.
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Old 01-07-2013, 21:00   #52
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Re: Anchors and chain

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When nylon is put into tension such that it is over 30% of breaking, IT GETS HOT. The heat is internal to the rope and if you pull hard enough on it, it will permanently deform.

I did my own tests with my Ford 2500 Econoline, an old 5/8" three stand nylon anchor rode and some brush in my yard that I tried to rip up by the roots. I got some up, I distorted the rope and I even broke the rope tugging on it with the van.

Hurricane Bob hit some of the harbors here in Massachusetts pretty hard. There were hundreds of boats up on the beaches. I forgot which organization did the study but they found nylon almost melted as it went over the chocks.

Another example which I am not proud of happened two years ago at Martha's Vineyard. I had a length of nylon seat belt material hanging in my dinghy, used it to lift the dinghy into and out of the water with my davit crane. Somehow that length of seat belt material that has/had a SS hook on the end got into the water. All of this was at the stern of my 40' Silverton. The dinghy had a hunk of nylon attached to one of the boat's cleats.

I knew the dinghy was tightly tide so I backed out of my slip and all hell broke loose. Anyway, that seat belt material wrapped around the prop AND MELTED! Yeah, in the water and it melted!! I still have the piece on my boat. If it had not melted major damage would have occurred because the dinghy would have been pulled into my props.

Foggy

Insurance adjusters and other specialists studied failed lines after Hurricane Katrina and noted the same thing -- nylon line that melted from the inside out.

They found that it happened when the chafing material was waterproof and concluded that when the nylon got soaked with water, the water would cool it off.

I'm not sure what one could use as chafing that would do the job but not be waterproof. Anyone have any suggestions for that? It is remarkable how the low to our north and the high to our east here (w.coast of Florida) has basically laid down railroad tracks for bad weather.

If a tropical storm or hurricane were to form in the southern Gulf of Mexico, which isn't unusual at this time of year, it would probably follow the same line of movement ...
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Old 01-07-2013, 21:04   #53
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Re: Anchors and chain

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I'm not sure what one could use as chafing that would do the job but not be waterproof. Anyone have any suggestions for that?
I use leather. It's water resistant to a point but hardly waterproof. I have a bowsprit and put a blog a little bit out there which tends to move a lot of the snubber's movement up forward and take care of it that way on bearings. Not sure if that's practical for sprit-less boats.
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Old 01-07-2013, 21:51   #54
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Old 01-07-2013, 23:50   #55
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Re: Anchors and chain

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I have never been at anchor in a storm that the wind did not gust or slack off for a moment. To think that a 30' snubber would not be touching the bottom at times is just not realistic. I do not want to spend my watch on the fordeck adjusting the snubber.
Which is why with our 42' snubbers we have 27'/30' on the sidedeck and its about 15' between hulls - so when unstretched our snubbers/bridle kisses the water.

But a 12' snubber is not going to give you the same advantage of a 30' snubber. its a compromise, if it suits you cannot knock it

For chafe guard I'm checking Dyneema hollow braid, or hollow tape.

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Old 02-07-2013, 00:44   #56
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Re: Anchors and chain

I think one difficulty in this thread is some people are using "storm" to indicate the sort of conditions experienced in a thunderstorm and others are using it to mean storm force winds.

The two are very different
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Old 02-07-2013, 02:48   #57
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Re: Anchors and chain

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I think one difficulty in this thread is some people are using "storm" to indicate the sort of conditions experienced in a thunderstorm and others are using it to mean storm force winds.

The two are very different
+1

Another is that some people suggest they are in a Storm (F9) but are actually in a sheltered anchorage with 50 knot winds 'outside'.

We sat out forecast 70 knot winds in Tasmania, The Duck Pond, the winds were forecast at 70 knots and the sound of the wind overhead (maybe 300' above us) for a good few hours was similar to a 747 running its engines - we maybe had 30 knot gusts. I am sure it was 70 knots somewhere. We had specifically retraced out steps, a days sail, to get there.

Most Gales, Storms and Hurricanes (Cyclones, Typhoons) are very well forecast and occur in locations where such conditions are well known - to sit at anchor exposed to 70 knots winds (recorded at the masthead) must be unusual (in addition to being quite frightening).

We are complete wimps - when we hear of anything above 40 knots we go to the nearest place of shelter (we do get it wrong). Its nothing to do with a lack of confidence in us or the kit - its simply not a competition.

Jonathan
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Old 02-07-2013, 06:58   #58
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Re: Anchors and chain

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.................................................. ...........................................
We are complete wimps - when we hear of anything above 40 knots we go to the nearest place of shelter (we do get it wrong). Its nothing to do with a lack of confidence in us or the kit - its simply not a competition.

Jonathan
"Complete wimps", pansies, cockpit potatoes,- 'sounds like my favorite strategy too! Well, with the exception of the competition. I want to get to the best safe anchorage first!
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Old 02-07-2013, 16:08   #59
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Re: Anchors and chain

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"Complete wimps", pansies, cockpit potatoes,- 'sounds like my favorite strategy too! Well, with the exception of the competition. I want to get to the best safe anchorage first!


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Old 03-07-2013, 02:50   #60
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Re: Anchors and chain

Regarding the chafe and melting of nylon snubbers while anchoring in storms, I don't rely on my efforts at protecting my snubber line. On most occasions when I've anchored in a protected place for a tropical storm or hurricane, I prepare three snubbers, each with slightly more length in succession. If one fails I'm depending on the next one. I don't choose to make my way up to the bow in heavy winds to attempt to repalce a snubber,- I don't think I would be capable.
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