Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 22-08-2017, 03:30   #1
Registered User
 
Dexterbase's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Monterey, CA
Boat: Alan Wright, One-off, Kauri Modified full keel 31'
Posts: 82
Monterey to Santa Cruz

Hi everyone :-) This is going to take a little explaining so please hang in there with me.

I have a 31 foot full keel wood boat with no inboard diesel. I have a kicker which I basically only ever use to get off and onto my mooring in Monterey.

I've had the boat for about four years and we sail a few times a month and generally head out to the area off of moss landing where the whales like to hang out.

Because there's no inboard diesel, I'm pretty conservative about when we take the boat out because the kicker doesn't do a great job of moving the boat if the wind drops off. I'm equally careful to not get caught out in high wind either because getting back onto the mooring can get a little... Spicy.

I want to step things up a little and sail to Santa Cruz, anchor off the boardwalk over night, then sail back.

I have a 35 pound CQR, 22 pound Bruce, and an aluminum Spade anchor with 30' of 1/4" chain and 1/2" nylon three strand rode.

I haven't ever anchored before, so I will definitely be practicing here in Monterey off Del Monte beach to work that out. We don't have a windlass, so we'll be basically anchoring under sail and with the limited ability of the kicker to assist... so I guess I have a lot to learn about anchoring.

I've read The Complete Anchoring Handbook by Alain Poiraud and everything in there makes sense, now I just need to get out and work out a system with my girlfriend.

Anyhow, my seven year old is sailing with us now and because of that I just wanted some opinions from more experienced sailors as to whether, given the equipment I have to work with, am I missing something or does it sound like I'm off track with trying this? Does this sound unsafe?

I'll be the first to admit I'm not a sailor, just a guy with a sailboat who loves the ocean and I'm trying to instill that love into my son. I'm learning as I go.

If you've read this far I thank you and I'm looking forward to any input.

Chad, Amber and Westley.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	1399572_10201688360946885_324275736_o (1).jpg
Views:	316
Size:	60.6 KB
ID:	154582   Click image for larger version

Name:	20414065_10212854041241914_7371930295601562641_o.jpg
Views:	133
Size:	408.9 KB
ID:	154583  

Click image for larger version

Name:	860375_10201719586447503_1396588763_o.jpg
Views:	138
Size:	77.3 KB
ID:	154584   Click image for larger version

Name:	20663789_10212941605150957_5387766771054473835_n.jpg
Views:	130
Size:	45.9 KB
ID:	154585  

Dexterbase is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-08-2017, 09:10   #2
Registered User
 
gamayun's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Oakland, CA
Boat: Freedom 38
Posts: 2,494
Re: Monterey to Santa Cruz

Is there any way you can get advice from a sailing school or an old salt on your dock who is willing to trade his expertise for your labor or some beers? I don't mean this to scare you, but anchoring off the coast here is intimidating, and if it's not done well, could land you in a bad spot. I am definitely one who has been learning as she goes, too. One of the first times I anchored was off the boardwalk in Santa Cruz. I have a Bruce (25 pounds, maybe?) and lots of chain as well as an engine so I made sure it dug in well. I was still nervous as hell as the wind swung us to every corner of the compass throughout the night. I know because I woke up at every wind shift and my reference as I popped my head out the companionway was different (and disorienting) each time. Especially weird was to be looking at the breakers at the beach off my stern at 3 AM when I had been parallel to the pier that evening, and then swinging another 180 degrees by the morning. Last weekend, I anchored in Drakes Bay where it was blowing 30 knots and where several other boats went on the beach, probably because their anchors didn't hold in the kelp. Others may have a different take on how it might be with your setup. All the best to you!
gamayun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-08-2017, 01:35   #3
Registered User
 
Dexterbase's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Monterey, CA
Boat: Alan Wright, One-off, Kauri Modified full keel 31'
Posts: 82
Anchoring without inboard or windlass

I posted this over in the specific destination section for information specific to Monterey bay, but this also is a question appropriate for the anchoring forum, I believe. If not, I apologize.
-------------------------------------------

Hi everyone :-) This is going to take a little explaining so please hang in there with me.

I have a 31 foot full keel wood boat with no inboard diesel. I have a kicker which I basically only ever use to get off and onto my mooring in Monterey.

I've had the boat for about four years and we sail a few times a month and generally head out to the area off of moss landing where the whales like to hang out.

Because there's no inboard diesel, I'm pretty conservative about when we take the boat out because the kicker doesn't do a great job of moving the boat if the wind drops off. I'm equally careful to not get caught out in high wind either because getting back onto the mooring can get a little... Spicy.

I want to step things up a little and sail to Santa Cruz, anchor off the boardwalk over night, then sail back.

I have a 35 pound CQR, 22 pound Bruce, and an aluminum Spade anchor with 30' of 1/4" chain and 1/2" nylon three strand rode.

I haven't ever anchored before, so I will definitely be practicing here in Monterey off Del Monte beach to work that out. We don't have a windlass, so we'll be basically anchoring under sail and with the limited ability of the kicker to assist... so I guess I have a lot to learn about anchoring.

I've read The Complete Anchoring Handbook by Alain Poiraud and everything in there makes sense, now I just need to get out and work out a system with my girlfriend.

Anyhow, my seven year old is sailing with us now and because of that I just wanted some opinions from more experienced sailors as to whether, given the equipment I have to work with, am I missing something or does it sound like I'm off track with trying this? Does this sound unsafe?

I'll be the first to admit I'm not a sailor, just a guy with a sailboat who loves the ocean and I'm trying to instill that love into my son. I'm learning as I go.

If you've read this far I thank you and I'm looking forward to any input.

Chad, Amber and Westley.
Dexterbase is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-08-2017, 05:11   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Port Ludlow Wa
Boat: Makela,Ingrid38,Idora
Posts: 2,051
Re: Anchoring without inboard or windlass

Your principal concern is proximity to a Lee shore. Your second concern is getting the anchor to set without an engine to back down on it. Sailing off the hook requires timing and proper conditions as well as enough room to maneuver. If you don't achieved the tack your anticipating you find yourself in a "heave to" configuration with the jib backed making leeway toward the beach. Your option then is to jibe the boat or tack the jib. All this will happen right away when the anchor it's pulled free of the bottom. You can't be on the fore deck and in the cockpit at the same time... Depending on the boat and the rig she may not be eager to respond to your control inputs with the anchor dangling. There is also the risk of the anchor re setting itself as the boat makes leeway toward the shore. It's not something to try in a crowded space for the first time. Practice plus the 6 P's is required.
IdoraKeeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-08-2017, 06:19   #5
Marine Service Provider
 
Steadman Uhlich's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 6,105
Re: Anchoring without inboard or windlass

Quote:
Originally Posted by IdoraKeeper View Post
Your principal concern is proximity to a Lee shore. Your second concern is getting the anchor to set without an engine to back down on it. Sailing off the hook requires timing and proper conditions as well as enough room to maneuver. If you don't achieved the tack your anticipating you find yourself in a "heave to" configuration with the jib backed making leeway toward the beach. Your option then is to jibe the boat or tack the jib. All this will happen right away when the anchor it's pulled free of the bottom. You can't be on the fore deck and in the cockpit at the same time... Depending on the boat and the rig she may not be eager to respond to your control inputs with the anchor dangling. There is also the risk of the anchor re setting itself as the boat makes leeway toward the shore. It's not something to try in a crowded space for the first time. Practice plus the 6 P's is required.


Good advice.

____

A Few Tips Based on Experience:

1. Whoever is on the foredeck should shout "Anchor's Aweigh" or a similar prearranged vocal signal back to the cockpit and use a very clear and predetermined hand/arm signal to notify the captain or helmsman that the anchor is off the bottom, as it may take several more minutes for the full rode to be pulled up. This should be "talked through" PRIOR to raising the anchor. Also, hand signals are important, as voice alone may be hard to hear in wind or if the motor is running.

2. During that time, the anchor will be dangling, and that crewperson will be busy and focused on recovering the anchor and properly stowing or securing it, and they will not be able to help tend the sails etc. The crew in the cockpit should know what to do as the boat begins to drift or move, and they should have situational awareness.

3. The key point is that the rest of the crew must know when the boat will be adrift and be always aware of the position of the boat relative to other boats in the anchorage or other things such as the shore or rocks, etc. Just because the person on the foredeck is still hauling on the rode, does not mean the anchor is still down and hooked and the cockpit crew can look at their phones, etc.

4. Always anticipate little things that cause delays and SNAFUs. What if the anchor is fouled with kelp? Have a boat hook handy on the foredeck to remove the kelp from the anchor. That may delay the foredeck crew from returning to tend sails, so the cockpit crew may need to do more (alone) for longer. Etc.

Good luck on your anchoring!
Steadman Uhlich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-08-2017, 13:44   #6
Registered User
 
Hydra's Avatar

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lorient, Brittany, France
Boat: Gib'Sea 302, 30' - Hydra
Posts: 1,245
Re: Anchoring without inboard or windlass

I sail a 30-foot, 4-tonne yacht without a windlass. If the anchorage isn't crowded, I found it easier to have the anchor on deck before hoisting any sail, because this much reduces the windage.

When the anchor is aweigh, the boat falls off the wind, so I hoist the headsail first (I don't have a roller furler), as soon as the anchor is out of the water. Then, I sail out of the anchorage, I tidy up the foredeck, I set the course to a close reach and I hoist the mainsail.

I did this many times with only one adult with me. With some room in the anchorage, it's even possible to do it alone.

I agree with Steady, the most important points are a proper briefing before the manoeuvre and situational awareness of all during the execution.

Alain
Hydra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-08-2017, 14:20   #7
Registered User
 
Mike OReilly's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Good question
Boat: Rafiki 37
Posts: 13,550
Re: Anchoring without inboard or windlass

Hi Dexterbase, I donít think youíre off base, but you do face challenges most cruisers no longer bother with. Anchoring under sail is trickier than with a reliable diesel, but with some forethought itís not too hard.

When I do it I pick my spot carefully. Good holding, lots of space, easy in-and-out, not crowded, good weather predictions, etc. I take a few passes under sail if Iím need more info. Then pick your spot, and sail in, luffing up into the wind right where you want to drop. I usually drop the jib as I head in, and then come up under main alone, but it depends on the need for drive.

Once the boat has come to a stop the anchor goes down. If thereís enough wind and windage you may be able to set it as is, but I use the main to dig in the hook (using my preventer to swing the boom out).

Sailing off anchor is a lot easier than sailing on. As others have said, timing is everything, but itís not really that hard if you have the good wind and the space (and you wonít do it unless you do ).

How heavy is your boat? How deep are the anchorages? Whatís the bottom like? Your gear is likely appropriate, unless your boat is particularly massive (which a wood boat could be).

A windlass is not necessary for anchoring, but it does make retrieval easier. But you donít need it with the gear you mention. As others have said, good communication is vital at all times during the anchoring/de-anchoring process. Make sure everyone knows what it is going to happen, including having Plan B (or C, or D) if things go off the rails.
__________________
Why go fast, when you can go slow.
BLOG: www.helplink.com/CLAFC
Mike OReilly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-08-2017, 21:46   #8
Moderator
 
Don C L's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Channel Islands, CA
Boat: 1962 Columbia 29 MK 1 #37
Posts: 13,081
Images: 58
Re: Anchoring without inboard or windlass

I have not anchored off the boardwalk but I used to take my kayak surfing there at Steamer's when I was a kid, so take this with a grain of salt. The area where most folks anchor is east of the pier I believe but the area is very large so you have plenty of room. If it were me I'd be planning on setting two anchors, bow and stern to hold you into the prevailing swell to keep things more comfortable. If the forecast is settled, and the swell is down then you should have a very pleasant evening. If you decide to set two there are two ways to do it. The way I'd do it is to have both anchors ready and have the stern anchor hanging and ready. Make sure you have extra line on the stern rode so that you can let out double what you need. If you are in 25 feet then plan on having 350' ready so that when you are done both anchors will have about 175' out, which will be a little under 7:1 scope which is more than you will likely need. (BTW if you don't have 350' of line for your stern, don't panic, you just need 200' or so. You can tie on an extra length of some other old line just for the purpose of giving you enough length to run up to where the bow anchor will be dropped.) Pick your spot and then poke along with the kicker until you are where you want the stern hook to be and then feed it out, don't just let it drop. As Steady says, at the same time have a signal ready, and the bow anchor ready to drop and pay out. PUT YOUR GLOVES ON! Once you have reached the 350 feet or so of your stern rode slow down, cleat it off. As soon as the boat pulls that stern rode taught and starts to reverse itself, let the bow anchor rode pay out pretty quickly. Since the boat is sliding backward the chain will lay down nicely on the bottom. Take up on the stern rode 175' then cleat off the bow. Then start taking up on the bow. You should feel it become very hard to pull. That is good. That means both anchors are digging in. Keep pulling until you are sure you cannot take up on the bow. Try it on the stern too. If that line tries to rip out of your hand and burn your glove, you are set. If the tide is high, yer set, if it is low, let out an extra 10 or 15 feet. Personally I'd put the Bruce on the stern and the Spade on the bow FOR THIS time, and leave the CQR for some other time. With that I'd sleep like a baby all night. Now if by some chance a strong breeze comes up in the night and hits you broadside and you are at all concerned then get up and uncleat the stern anchor rode and walk it up to the bow and cleat it off up there. The boat will pivot to the wind and the two anchors will hold you through more wind than you are ever likely to face there. I just had to do that the other day, no problemo, I went back to bed.
BTW I have a 29 footer, no inboard (but a good outboard) and no windlass. My buddy has a 30 footer more like yours and we anchor his bow and stern all the time with two CQRs. CQRs are fair but they need more room and more scope to set and hold well. They work fine if they have that, but they are not my first choice these days. There was a time when they were all the rage. Not so much now.
BTW I found this on the web too, maybe it will help:
https://www.blueanarchy.org/cruising/

Good luck! Cruising with kids can be a lot of fun, and I bet your son loves it! There is a "Cruising with Kids" social group here too.

oh on edit I see you did not mention the size of the spade. If it is small then I'd use the CQR on the bow.
__________________
DL
Pythagoras
1962 Columbia 29 MKI #37
Don C L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-08-2017, 10:01   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Alert Bay, Vancouver Island
Boat: 35ft classic ketch/yawl.
Posts: 1,971
Images: 4
Send a message via Skype™ to roland stockham
Re: Anchoring without inboard or windlass

Given your level of experience, if at all possible, I would suggest getting an instructor on board for a day to help you learn and develop confidence. Anchoring under sail in good conditions is not that hard but there are plenty of opportunities to mess up and, depending on conditions, get into some serious trouble. You have the advantage that you are in a clear warm water area which means you can snorkel down to check the anchor when you think it is set, definitely worth doing.
roland stockham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-08-2017, 13:39   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: California Central Coast
Boat: Pacific Seacraft, Dana, 24
Posts: 81
Send a message via ICQ to EveningTide
Re: Anchoring without inboard or windlass

I have anchored at Santa Cruz a number of times and usually without the engine running. I anchor on the west side of the pier and there is lots of room, water is 25 feet deep with a good sand bottom. My boat is 24 feet with long keel and I single-hand. I arrive from the west (north) from Half Moon Bay. Even if the wind has been strong once past Santa Cruz point the wind quickly drops and the water smooths out. As I approach I get my head sails down and anchor/rode ready to go. I have a 22 lb anchor/20 feet of chain and nylon rode (no windass) and I pre-measure onto the deck the 125 feet of rode I will be using. Once you turn into the anchorage you will find the wind is from the shore so you tack upwind to where you want to drop the anchor. (My boat tacks easily with just the mainsail up.) Finally you point the bow upwind to kill speed, quickly pull the mainsail down, and then release the anchor. Usually the bow blows off to the side and the boat heads off downwind. As the line is feeding out put a little tension on it to begin the anchor setting process. When you reach the end of the line you jerk to a stop and that is the only proof the anchor is set.

Getting underway is not difficult. Once the breeze starts it is blowing you away from shore so once the anchor breaks free you will be going in a safe direction.

Making the crossing from Monterey to Santa Cruz is also not difficult BUT it can get foggy.
EveningTide is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-08-2017, 17:24   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 20,412
Re: Anchoring without inboard or windlass

My tip is: think ahead. Then thing more ahead.

Not just how you are going to approach the anchorage and drop the hook (this, my friend, is the easy peasy part). Think further ahead and imagine how you are going to sail off the hook, assuming the wind, tide and other relevant factors may&will change.

I am comfortable with engine-less anchoring. In a sailing boat (=a boat that sails well). Less so in a tub.

Cheers,
b.
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-08-2017, 17:55   #12
cat herder, extreme blacksheep

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: furycame alley , tropics, mexico for now
Boat: 1976 FORMOSA yankee clipper 41
Posts: 18,967
Images: 56
Re: Anchoring without inboard or windlass

anchoring under sail...skip the backing down on the anchor part as that does not apply. the forward momentum you have making way will set the anchor just right.
35 pound bruce would be perfect... use all chain. cqr-- as a backup to your 22 pound bruce. rope will put you on the beach --is a lee shore surf line anchorage as i remember. could get dicey.

zihuatenejo i had about run outta diesel and was sailing on light airs by leapfrogging ==using engine for a burst then drift/sail into anchorage. perfect.
while learning as a kid we anchored under sail as we had no engine, and no windlass. was 1903 built gaff rigger, so it would not suffer those addenda.
as my windlass never works i essentially anchor without a windlass. my previous boats had no windlasses.
i measure 50 ft off my all chain rode to drop with my 66 pound bruce, and when that is set.. i add about 100 ft more and secure to bits and snub with a bridle i make of line.

by the way, your headsail is your steering sail. you will not be able to maneuver without it. drop main(your driving sail) outside the anchorage and secure. then approach the anchorage under jib alone. once anchored then stow that. i also use a mizzen, as my boat is a ketch, and occasionally i leave the mizzen up while anchored--it has 3 reef points so i can reef that also. is mainly a balancing sail unless under way in conjunction with my genoa. then it adds 1.5-2 kts, but alone is nearly nil.
zeehag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-08-2017, 00:09   #13
Registered User
 
Dexterbase's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Monterey, CA
Boat: Alan Wright, One-off, Kauri Modified full keel 31'
Posts: 82
Re: Anchoring without inboard or windlass

Excellent replies! I can always count on a wealth of knowledge here.


I forgot to include that my Spade anchor is a 15 pound A80- which the manufacturer states is appropriate for boats up to 34 feet, weighing less than 9,920 lbs. My boat is 31 feet and weighs in the neighborhood of 8000 pounds.
Dexterbase is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-08-2017, 00:15   #14
Registered User
 
markpierce's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Central California
Boat: M/V Carquinez Coot
Posts: 3,782
Re: Anchoring without inboard or windlass

In my local waters, tidal currents and winds set the anchor without any help of an engine.
__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-08-2017, 01:45   #15
Registered User

Join Date: May 2017
Location: Coastal GA.
Boat: Presto 36
Posts: 254
Re: Anchoring without inboard or windlass

Keep in mind that your anchor can be deployed from the stern if necessary with the rode ran forward around the outside of the shrouds to your attachment point on the bow, prior to use. Just sail in, put the helm over hard and at the same time, drop your anchor from your position in the cockpit. Your forward momentum should "set" the anchor. Revere the procedure as necessary. Pull the rode around the outside of the shrouds to the cockpit, make secure. Raise sail with sheets free, pull rode, secure anchor in cockpit, sail away.
Seabeau is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
anchor, anchoring, santa cruz, wind, windlass

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Anchoring without visa? Karin Rules of the Road, Regulations & Red Tape 53 24-03-2015 15:31
Anchor advise for 26f boat without windlass Regatta Anchoring & Mooring 3 25-10-2012 15:56
Single handed anchoring - el. windlass required Zonker Anchoring & Mooring 40 16-07-2012 11:36
Is a Skeg Necessary without an Inboard and with a Transom-Hung Rudder ? BudgieSmuggler Monohull Sailboats 27 21-03-2011 05:43
Solo Anchoring Techniques Sans Windlass ? RSMacG Anchoring & Mooring 30 10-09-2010 18:40

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 16:02.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.